Is life after death really life?

[JorduSpeaks]

Jesus promises resurrection and life everlasting for his followers. There’s one problem, though: life is terrible! All too often, this ‘vale of tears’ is just a constant string of miseries occasionally punctuated by a brief lull to keep the pain fresh. In order for everlasting life to be ‘good news’, this ‘life’ must be so different from the life we know as to completely change the meaning of the word.

So, what do we REALLY mean by ‘life everlasting’? Is it truly different from life, or are we just supposed to conclude that everlasting life is specifically reserved for those people who love God enough to endure eternal torment in order to be closer to Him?

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I hear what you are saying, but I don’t have an answer or thought to share on it. I’m interested to hear from others on this.

One thing that comes to mind is I remember reading some literature…maybe from a saint, that basically one should with humility accept hell if God so deems you worthy of it. It’s been ages since I read it, and I paraphrase it here…maybe even got the jist wrong. I’m sorry that’s not helpful without a citation. Just saying it because maybe it would remind someone else of it who could.

 

[Amandil]

JorduSpeaks2204706:

Jesus promises resurrection and life everlasting for his followers. There’s one problem, though: life is terrible! All too often, this ‘vale of tears’ is just a constant string of miseries occasionally punctuated by a brief lull to keep the pain fresh. In order for everlasting life to be ‘good news’, this ‘life’ must be so different from the life we know as to completely change the meaning of the word.

So, what do we REALLY mean by ‘life everlasting’? Is it truly different from life, or are we just supposed to conclude that everlasting life is specifically reserved for those people who love God enough to endure eternal torment in order to be closer to Him?

Well, the first supposition that you have depends upon what you make of the purpose of life.

IOW life can be terrible if we make it terrible, regardless of if we feel actual sensible pain or not. We all know people who appear to have every blessing but are themselves miserable. And OTOH we know people who seem to be blessed with nothing but are markedly content with life.

Many of the saints were absolutely joyful even in the midst if terrible pains and agonies.

I think that there is something in our modern world which tells us that pain, as merely being an instructive part of life, instead must be something avoided if at all possible.

Do we think that all pain will end in the next life? I’m not so sure, maybe it will, or maybe we’ll just perceive it differently than we do now. But I don’t necessarily think that the existence of any pain makes life qualitatively less.

Christ said that He came that we may have life, and have it more abundantly. He also demonstrated that life can be joyful even in the midst of the worst pains and sufferings so long as we love.

Whatever else may be said, we know that life here on this earth is a pale shadow in comparison to the life to come, and what that life may be depends upon how we love. The pain and suffering we experience and which are allowed by God are meant to be instructive and are for our progress in spiritual maturity. In the next life no more instruction will be necessary.

 

[Reepicheep]

That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9.

You make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand. Psalm 16: 11.

The life God offers us is bliss, pure and unbroken joy forever.
There shall be no more pain, no more sadness, no grief, no loss. Only glorious happiness. Praise be to God. :dancing:

 

[Cricket2]

Jesus promises resurrection and life everlasting for his followers. There’s one problem, though: life is terrible! All too often, this ‘vale of tears’ is just a constant string of miseries occasionally punctuated by a brief lull to keep the pain fresh. In order for everlasting life to be ‘good news’, this ‘life’ must be so different from the life we know as to completely change the meaning of the word.

So, what do we REALLY mean by ‘life everlasting’? Is it truly different from life, or are we just supposed to conclude that everlasting life is specifically reserved for those people who love God enough to endure eternal torment in order to be closer to Him?

“There will be no more tears.” Ring a bell?
The afterlife will not be the same as life here. If we land up in heaven with God there will be no more suffering for us, as we will be free of sin. If we land up in hell then we will suffer for all eternity. Hell is total and complete separation from God. In heaven we are totally united with God. And remember, God sends us to neither, we choose which we will have through our own actions and free will.

Choices of sin bring us closer to Satan, while choices to do good and what is right in the eyes of God bring us closer to Him. We can never do enough to warrant Heaven, but it is through His sufferings that we have that chance, and His mercy. None of us deserve it.

 

[Nihilist]

Jesus promises resurrection and life everlasting for his followers. There’s one problem, though: life is terrible! All too often, this ‘vale of tears’ is just a constant string of miseries occasionally punctuated by a brief lull to keep the pain fresh. In order for everlasting life to be ‘good news’, this ‘life’ must be so different from the life we know as to completely change the meaning of the word.

So, what do we REALLY mean by ‘life everlasting’? Is it truly different from life, or are we just supposed to conclude that everlasting life is specifically reserved for those people who love God enough to endure eternal torment in order to be closer to Him?

Augustine, in the Confessions, says that we should not call our earthly life, ‘vitam mortalem’, (a mortal life) but ‘mortem vitalem’ (a living death).

There is truth to what you say. Heavenly existence is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from what we call ‘Life’. I think the use of the time ‘life’ for both can be misleading.

I propose, we keep the term “Life” exclusively for Heaven (our ‘real life in Christ’), and following Augustine, call Christians should refer to earthly existence as “this Living Death”, or “our Bitter Exile”.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Perhaps a search on the original (pre-translated) hebrew or greek words used in its original context might say more about the meaning? Just a thought.

 

[Gertabelle]

This present life is overwhelming to me most days, so I understand your hopes that eternal life is nothing like this one!

Here’s the scripture that helps me stay focused in my understanding of how very, very different heaven will be from this present existence:

1 Then I saw a new heaven, and a new earth. The old heaven, the old earth had vanished, and there was no more sea. 2 And I, John, saw in my vision that holy city which is the new Jerusalem, being sent down by God from heaven, all clothed in readiness, like a bride who has adorned herself to meet her husband. 3 I heard, too, a voice which cried aloud from the throne, Here is God’s tabernacle pitched among men; he will dwell with them, and they will be his own people, and he will be among them, their own God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, or mourning, or cries of distress, no more sorrow; those old things have passed away. 5 And he who sat on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
~ Revelation 21:1-5

Have hope, dear one, and God bless you!

Gertie

 

[oldcelt]

Nobody knows, despite what they may say. To a living being, it is all conjecture.

 

[Gertabelle]

Nobody knows, despite what they may say. To a living being, it is all conjecture.

As St. Paul said: “Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has it even entered in the minds of man…”

Gertie

 

[The_Reginator]

Jesus promises resurrection and life everlasting for his followers. There’s one problem, though: life is terrible! All too often, this ‘vale of tears’ is just a constant string of miseries occasionally punctuated by a brief lull to keep the pain fresh. In order for everlasting life to be ‘good news’, this ‘life’ must be so different from the life we know as to completely change the meaning of the word.

So, what do we REALLY mean by ‘life everlasting’? Is it truly different from life, or are we just supposed to conclude that everlasting life is specifically reserved for those people who love God enough to endure eternal torment in order to be closer to Him?

Life after death, if we choose God, will be anything but ‘terrible’.
From The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**1023 ** Those who die in God’s grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they “see him as he is,” face to face…

We get to see the Beatific Vision: we actually spend eternity (outside of time) directly with our God!

1024 ** This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity—this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed—is called “heaven.” Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings**, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.
**1025 ** To live in heaven is “to be with Christ.” The elect live “in Christ,”600 but they retain, or rather find, their true identity, their own name

(My highlighting.)

We cannot even begin to imagine what this will be like. We can only trust that which the Holy Spirit has revealed to His Church.

**
1027 ** This mystery of blessed communion with God and all who are in Christ is beyond all understanding and description. Scripture speaks of it in images: life, light, peace, wedding feast, wine of the kingdom, the Father’s house, the heavenly Jerusalem, paradise: “no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him.”603 (959, 1720)
**1028 ** Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man’s immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory “the beatific vision”: (1722, 163)
How great will your glory and happiness be, to be allowed to see God, to be honored with sharing the joy of salvation and eternal light with Christ your Lord and God,… to delight in the joy of immortality in the Kingdom of heaven with the righteous and God’s friends.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Well, the first supposition that you have depends upon what you make of the purpose of life.

IOW life can be terrible if we make it terrible, regardless of if we feel actual sensible pain or not. We all know people who appear to have every blessing but are themselves miserable. And OTOH we know people who seem to be blessed with nothing but are markedly content with life.

Many of the saints were absolutely joyful even in the midst if terrible pains and agonies.

I think that there is something in our modern world which tells us that pain, as merely being an instructive part of life, instead must be something avoided if at all possible.

Do we think that all pain will end in the next life? I’m not so sure, maybe it will, or maybe we’ll just perceive it differently than we do now. But I don’t necessarily think that the existence of any pain makes life qualitatively less.

Christ said that He came that we may have life, and have it more abundantly. He also demonstrated that life can be joyful even in the midst of the worst pains and sufferings so long as we love.

Whatever else may be said, we know that life here on this earth is a pale shadow in comparison to the life to come, and what that life may be depends upon how we love. The pain and suffering we experience and which are allowed by God are meant to be instructive and are for our progress in spiritual maturity. In the next life no more instruction will be necessary.

Life can be terrible even if we do not make it terrible.
Have you considered this?

 

[Amandil]

Life can be terrible even if we do not make it terrible.
Have you considered this?

Did you not read my post?

Amandil:

…We all know people who appear to have every blessing but are themselves miserable. And OTOH we know people who seem to be blessed with nothing but are markedly content with life.

I don’t blame you for being ignorant of that fact that my both my parents were heavy drug users and divorced when I was 2. That I had an alcoholic step-father who was at best indifferent and a mother who was twice in and out of NA and AA.

By every statistic I should have followed in their footsteps.

I chose not to. And compared to so many others my life may be considered “normal”.

 

[Amandil]

Nobody knows, despite what they may say. To a living being, it is all conjecture.

Six things which we do know which we will do in heaven:

We will:

1. Love and understand God
2. Love and understand others, &
3. Love and understand ourselves.

Whatever else may be contained in those actions, we know for certain that those 6 things will be essentially involved.

So no, not merely conjecture.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Six things which we do know which we will do in heaven:

We will:

1. Love and understand God
2. Love and understand others, &
3. Love and understand ourselves.

Whatever else may be contained in those actions, we know for certain that those 6 things will be essentially involved.

So no, not merely conjecture.

I see 3 things here, not six.
Help me to see the six.

 

[oldcelt]

Six things which we do know which we will do in heaven:

We will:

1. Love and understand God
2. Love and understand others, &
3. Love and understand ourselves.

Whatever else may be contained in those actions, we know for certain that those 6 things will be essentially involved.

So no, not merely conjecture.

And just where do you get your information? Are you in communication with people who are there?

I’d love to see your proof. If not available, it is conjecture in the purest sense of the word.

 

[Amandil]

And just where do you get your information? Are you in communication with people who are there?

I’d love to see your proof. If not available, it is conjecture in the purest sense of the word.

I grow bored with your self-contradictions and double-standards.

 

[Amandil]

I see 3 things here, not six.
Help me to see the six.

Love and understanding are distinct actions, are they not?

 

[oldcelt]

I grow bored with your self-contradictions and double-standards.

No, you grow frustrated with being called on using belief as if it is fact. My God is not a fact…I believe he exists, but I could not prove it in front of an impartial panel.