Is Michael Voris right about hell?

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Bella92 said:
I think he fancies himself quite a bit the way he swaggers and swivels, lording it over his audience. I also think he’s completely wrong about hell. No just and merciful God would condemn anyone to eternal suffering. I believe we will either be forgiven and end up in heaven, or simply cease to exist and know nothing further.
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  1. God condemns no one to hell; they condemn themselves
  2. Having said that, I know that many Franciscans believe that no human is in Hell
 
mommamaree said:
Wow, we almost made it to the end of the first page of responses before Voris, despite being spot on with his message, is mocked for something so unrelated and personal as a haircut.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
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I’m a big fan of Michael Voris, but I think even Michael would find this offhand remark humorous. I’m sure Michael is so zealous in his ministry, that he cares little about appearances for appearances sake. He’s truly a diamond in the rough.
 
wynnejj said:
I’m a big fan of Michael Voris, but I think even Michael would find this offhand remark humorous. I’m sure Michael is so zealous in his ministry, that he cares little about appearances for appearances sake. He’s truly a diamond in the rough.
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👍
I agree he would probably take it good-naturedly. I just get so tired of people bashing Voris here at CAF. It is strange how some people view him as a polarizing figure, IMO. I have enjoyed much of Church Militant TV’s programming, even the Vortex. And yet I still read Mark Shea and Simcha Fischer and others who have often taken humbrage at the things Voris says. I think there is a place for both the outspoken “hotheads” of the faith and the meeker academic types. The Church, and the world, need both, and frankly, we need them to appreciate each other a bit more. A reading of the New Testament gives witness to the fact that both personality types were amongst the apostles and readings on the lives of the Saints proves that continues to this day.
We need the whistleblower and the blogger. We need the gentle and the vociferous. We can have personal preferences and yet still admit that there is a place for the other as well.
 
dailey said:
True, you are not obligated to believe in the visions. However, you are obligated to believe in hell. It seems like we have a case of “Cafeteria Catholic” going on here…
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You are probably right so, if I am obligated to believe in hell, and don’t, I suppose that makes me a Cafeteria Catholic. Whatever that is.
 
Bella92 said:
I’ve looked into this in the past, and I’ve also discussed it with the man who was at the time my parish priest. He stopped short of agreeing with me, but left me with the clear impression he was also doubtful about the existence of hell. He was much more forceful in telling me I was sinning by enjoying lesbian sex and my attraction to women while not itself a sin, shouldn’t be acted on. I think it’s significant the Catholic church proclaims men and women to be saints in heaven but never once ever proclaimed anyone to be in hell.
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The Church does not proclaim that anyone is in hell. It confesses the reality of hell, but does not claim to know who is there.
 
Michael Voris would make an amazingly good Southern Baptist preacher.

-Tim-
 
Bella92 said:
Jesus uses the word destruction. If something is destroyed, it no longer exists. I don’t believe a merciful God would allow any creature He made to suffer eternally. That’s why I think it’s heaven, or destruction, as Jesus said.
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Not quite. When I destroy a book, as with fire, it is true the “book” no longer it exists, but it is not true that nothing exists. The material it’s made up of continues to exist as ashes, smoke, and other residue. In other words, “remains.”

Perhaps that’s what enters Hell. The remains of a soul.
 
sw85 said:
Perhaps that’s what enters Hell. The remains of a soul.
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I can live with that. If it’s destroyed, and there’s just the ash of the soul, it’s a dead thing, and so not suffering eternally.
 
There’s near universality amoung the Saints that few will be saved. Doctor’s of the Church like Saint Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas have made it irrevocably clear that they believe that not just few but very few will be going to heaven. I don’t understand how an average person could possibly disregard these words and go on to presume that most will be saved. While on earth, the Saints had a closeness to God that most of us will not even come close to having, as a result, they have insights that are simply not made evident to us. To disregard their words seems at least bizarre… at worst spiritually suicidal.

Afterall, the Saints are the only ones that we know for sure are in heaven. From a logical point of view wouldn’t it make the most sense to assume that only the Saints are going to get to heaven (ie. the bare minimum number being saved) and then try our absolute best to be a Saint in this life? I mean, if it turns out that many are saved, then we will have still made it to heaven. If, on the other hand, the massive consensus amoung the Saints is correct and very few will be saved, we will have played it safe and have the best possible chances of entering through the narrow gate.

It’s like writing an exam where you need 65% to pass. Who would purposely only answer 80% the questions?? What if you ended up with 64%? Every student knows that you got to try to answer all the questions and aim for a 100% because there are going to be some questions that you just weren’t planning for. It’s a real shame that so many people live their lives only trying to be 80% (or less) of a Saint, clinging to the baseless belief that the passing grade for heaven might only be 50%.
 
Is he? I dunno.
And I don’t care. I listen to what the Church teaches about heaven and hell, not any individual.

Being “right” and knowing “the truth” can be a very dangerous thing. Look through the Gospels and discover who are the first to proclaim the truth of who Jesus is. You may be surprised who knew “the truth”.
Clearly, being “right” is only one leg of the stool and if other virtues are missing, what do you have?
 
Bella92 said:
I think he fancies himself quite a bit the way he swaggers and swivels, lording it over his audience. I also think he’s completely wrong about hell. No just and merciful God would condemn anyone to eternal suffering. I believe we will either be forgiven and end up in heaven, or simply cease to exist and know nothing further.
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I’m not a massive fan of Voris but the Church teaches that Hell and the Devil are real. There is a lack of proper preaching in modern times about the dangers of hell and mortal sin.

If Jesus died on the cross to save us from sin…surely he was actually saving us from something.

God doesn’t condemn us to hell…we are condemned to hell by our own actions and by rejecting God in this life.
 
Bella92 said:
I think he fancies himself quite a bit the way he swaggers and swivels, lording it over his audience. I also think he’s completely wrong about hell. No just and merciful God would condemn anyone to eternal suffering. I believe we will either be forgiven and end up in heaven, or simply cease to exist and know nothing further.
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May God grant you His peace and the grace to embrace the truth of His teaching …you are on this forum for a reason.

Back in the day, humans thought the world was flat. My point is personal beleifs are only that …God is love, compassion and mercy first, and He is just or Jesus wouldn’t have died for us to have the opportunity of being redeemed.

A cafeteria catholic is someone who picks and chooses whtat they will accept and what they will reject of the bible, traditions and teachings. It really is putting “self” before God, thus idol worship, and the idol says what Satan first said “I will NOT serve”.

God is God and we are mere creatures … He is sovereign, no one else. God gave us free will, and we are called to choose to be obediant to His will…and if we choose not to be, then we will have chosen our consequences by our own thoughts, words and actions during this life.

You can not serve two masters.

God bless you
 
Bella92 said:
I think he fancies himself quite a bit the way he swaggers and swivels, lording it over his audience. I also think he’s completely wrong about hell. No just and merciful God would condemn anyone to eternal suffering. I believe we will either be forgiven and end up in heaven, or simply cease to exist and know nothing further.
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That’s the problem with not knowing your faith. Nowhere in all of the Deposit of Faith does it suggest that there is no hell. In fact, it’s infinitely to the contrary… No merciful and loving God would condemn someone to hell? You’re right. “We” choose to go to hell. “We” choose to live a life of sin, and should we die with a mortal sin on our souls, than “We” choose to go to hell. The problem with believing as you do, is that it does not require anyone to follow any rules. Someone could be a serial killer and just do every harmful thing they possibly could to others and when they die, they get the luxury of simply ceasing to exist. Now tell me, believing that, how could we call God “just”?
 
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