Is Muhammad foretold in the Bible?

[TonyBS]

Let’s go this way -

Is God perfect? (Does He ever correct Himself?)

If there is a God, He would never be wrong, He wouldn’t have a need to correct Himself.

Since God would be perfect, He certainly wouldn’t create chaos by teaching variances.

Concluding that God is logical is not limiting God.

Muhammad can answer that question for you

And [remember the time] when We saved you from Pharaoh’s people, who afflicted you with cruel suffering, slaughtering your sons and sparing [only] your women - which was an awesome trial from your Sustainer; - Al-Baqara (The Cow) - 2:49

And most certainly shall We try you by means [125] of danger, and hunger, and loss of worldly goods, of lives and of [labour’s] fruits. But give glad tidings unto those who are patient in adversity - Al-Baqara (The Cow) - 2:155

[But] do you think that you could enter para-dise without having suffered like those [believers] who passed away before you? [199] Misfortune and hardship befell them, and so shaken were they that the apostle, and the believers with him, would exclaim, “When will God’s succour come?” [200] Oh, verily, God’s succour is [always] near! - Al-Baqara (The Cow) - 2:214

God doeth as He willeth. It is all for our Bounty. It is man that creates the Chaos by rejecting what is from God.

That includes Muhammad and it must be considered that acceptance of what is from God is a challenge for us all, no matter what Faith we say we are followers of.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

The Greatest Love Story is foretold in the Bible. Not about a man alone, but God’s love for man. Love is foretold in the Bible. Jesus sent by the Father, God’s undivided Love for his Creation, his greatest Creation. Man. Because God Loves he sent his Only Son the Gift of His Love for man.

Joyful isn’t it? Amen!

Christmas just around the corner. May the Lord of life, be with all of us. He comes and never forget God’s Love foretold in the Bible. The Love of Christ. :harp:

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Let’s go this way -

Is God perfect? (Does He ever correct Himself?)

If there is a God, He would never be wrong, He wouldn’t have a need to correct Himself.

Since God would be perfect, He certainly wouldn’t create chaos by teaching variances.

Concluding that God is logical is not limiting God.

Are all Catholics circumcised ffg?

I find it entirely logical that variances are related to guidance given for a specific time to draw humanity closer to God than a previous time…

.

 

[Servant19]

Excellent! Good to hear that Muhammad claimed that the Bible was never corrupted.

That means the words of Moses, the Prophets and Jesus are true.

Ergo:

And…

And…

Clearly, Jesus gave us all that we need to come to the Father and he gave us a Church founded on Peter, the rock, which has full authority on earth to bind and loose and determine with authority what the Scriptures mean.

Therefore, there was no further need for any other prophet or book. I am fine with the fact that Muhammad agreed that the Bible was not corrupted by any human hands. Excellent that he realized that.

Since the Bible and the Church agree that all we need is Jesus to “come to the Father,” and that he is the Way, the Truth and the Life, we have no need for further embellishments or refinements because we have everything required for eternal life with God.

Thank you Peter,

Why believe Jesus over Krishna? If God is one, He was revealed and incarnated in Lord Krishna first, and He didn’t beat around, straight to the point:

Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way. I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize my true transcendental nature fall down”(Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.24)

.

 

[Servant19]

The Greatest Love Story is foretold in the Bible. Not about a man alone, but God’s love for man. Love is foretold in the Bible. Jesus sent by the Father, God’s undivided Love for his Creation, his greatest Creation. Man. Because God Loves he sent his Only Son the Gift of His Love for man.

Joyful isn’t it? Amen!

Christmas just around the corner. May the Lord of life, be with all of us. He comes and never forget God’s Love foretold in the Bible. The Love of Christ. :harp:

MJ

It truly is an amazing part of human history.

Merry Christmas to you all. May you always see Christ in all things

.

 

[ffg]

Muhammad can answer that question for you

…

God doeth as He willeth. It is all for our Bounty. It is man that creates the Chaos by rejecting what is from God.

That includes Muhammad and it must be considered that acceptance of what is from God is a challenge for us all, no matter what Faith we say we are followers of.

God Bless and Regards Tony

Hi Tony,

What you quoted doesn’t answer if God is perfect. As Truth may have it, we shouldn’t need someone to explain that or how God is perfect. It comes with job for God.

We agree where chaos comes from - humans - some might call the ‘rejecting’, sin.

Take care,

Mike

 

[ffg]

Are all Catholics circumcised ffg?

I find it entirely logical that variances are related to guidance given for a specific time to draw humanity closer to God than a previous time…

.

when people stopped asking ’ what does this mean’, and started doing their own interpretation, the result is as you’ve done here - applying teachings incorrectly to suit a narrative, which would lead down a path away from what is true.

Some might say that applying a specific instruction universally in order to beat it down is called building a strawman.

Of which the only response is to point it out, so you might see the disconnect in your argument.

Two specific instructions should not lead one to a conclusion that God is correcting Himself in a different point in time.

That comes across like the person holding that thought thinks God is not perfect.

 

[ericc]

Hi eric,

Let me ask you, have the times of the Gentiles been fulfilled?
Is Jerusalem still being trodden under foot?
Are the Jews in control of Jerusalem?
The regaining of control of Jerusalem by the Jews was March 21st, 1844 when the Edict of Toleration was signed and within 8 years of that date the majority of Jerusalem was Jewish.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Toleration_1844

So whenever you wish to insist that Jerusalem was ovetaken by Gentiles, whether it’s 136AD, 637 AD or whatever, the end of that Gentile period has come and gone.

You shouldn’t be asking me those questions. I can’t be doing your homework. You should be providing data to back up what you claim to be true. Then I’ll do homework to confirm what you said is true.

Such as the claim that Jerusalem came under gentile rule in 622AD. I did my homework and found out that is clearly false. This not a matter of what I wish Jerusalem to be, it is YOUR claim that Jerusalem was overtaken in 622AD. Obviously the onus of proof is on you to support that claim. If that is wrong, then withdraw the claim and admit the error. There is no need to ask me to substantiate anything else.

Obviously if the start date is not 622 AD, then1260 lunar years can’t get you to 1844 AD. Which mean 1844 is wrong too. The Holy of Holies, was destroyed in 70AD. Since there is no restoration of the Temple from that time on wards, the prophecy is wrong again. The part about the Holy of Holies being preserved, guarded and respected—until the year 1260 is evidentially false. It was long gone and never came back. Of course one can claim it was invisibly restored and made operational again but that stretches credibility even more. If it didn’t happen factually, and if one should claimed it happened supernaturally, in another dimension, symbolically etc, how does one prove anything for that matter? You just need to believe something happen sometime and that’s that. But no one is ever convinced by such claims because the factual evidence of prophecy is not proven.

Anyway the Edit of Tolerance does not make sense at all for the Jews because the Ottoman Empire never prevented Jews from living in Palestine. Some discussions online suggest that the British were trying to protect the rights of Christians living in the area instead.

No, in 1844, Jerusalem is not under the control of the Jews. It is still under the control of the Ottomans. And it wasn’t really booming then. Population estimates range from 15000 to 20000 and stayed around that range for the next few decades. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusalem

This is in reference to the spirit of Islam being dead since it’s covenant was broken early within it’s history…

And who is authorized to determine that? Since you are talking the spirit of something again, I suspect that no proof will be provided. After all, it is up to you to choose what is allegory and spiritual. Hence the “prophecies” that you allude to need not be taken seriously as to dates and events. Anyone can spin a story out of historical events with some flexibility, one just need dates with some symbolic explanations.

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, Jesus of Nazareth, 2011 (pp. 282-283)

I told you this will get out of topic. Isn’t this about Mohammed/Ali and not Christ? Keep it to them please. This topic is NOT about catholicism.

To summed up why I am not convinced by these “prophecies”

1. The dates and events are wrong. 622AD is not the date when Jerusalem came under the gentiles. Gentiles took over Jerusalem in 136 AD. Holy of Holies never made it back after 70AD, never guarded nor restored.
2. Claims of the 2 witnesses Rev 11:3 of being Mohammed and Ali is not supported by any evidence. These 2 witnesses can be anyone so wishes. My question on why these 2 men couldn’t be Mohammed and Abu Bakr or Umar or Uthman remain unanswered. Or just anyone. Anyone can make this sort of proclamation without having to show the authority.
3. Who is authorized to claim that the religion of Mohammed will last until 1844? It is still there and growing. So that portion of the prophecy is also wrong.
4. I don’t think there are any Muslims who claim that Islam started in 622AD. Mohammed has been preaching for at least a decade before the migration to Medina. So it is wrong again factually.

I think all the efforts to start counting from 622AD is completely a futile exercise because the claims are just not true. Any student of history can verify all these facts.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Thank you Peter,
Why believe Jesus over Krishna? If God is one, He was revealed and incarnated in Lord Krishna first, and He didn’t beat around, straight to the point:
.

Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way. I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize my true transcendental nature fall down”(Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.24)

Clearly, from your quote, Krishna thought he was the only one worthy of sacrifices. Ergo, the only God. It is logically possible, I suppose, for God to have incarnated as Krishna before Christ, but given the nature of their lives, their teachings and the development of understanding from those teachings, my nod goes to Christ – far more to the heart of the deep questions of about the nature and meaning of life.

This is to say nothing of all the consorts of Krishna, so were they all gods, too? And the other manifestations of deity within Hinduism? Where does it end?

In short there are all kinds of reasons for believing Jesus over Krishna. I am certain about Jesus. He is real food and real drink.

By the way, I did read the Bhagavad-Gita in an eastern philosophies course I took many years ago and I didn’t find it very compelling then, nor have I since. The eastern philosophies I found most compelling were those whose founders made no such claims about being God – Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism, especially the first. I found Lao Tse to be very Christ-like and the Te-Tao Ching most inspiring precisely because of its similarities to the teachings of Christ, especially its proximity to the Beatitudes. Lao Tse lived 600 years before Christ and was a naturally holy man.

 

[openmind77]

Clearly, from your quote, Krishna thought he was the only one worthy of sacrifices. Ergo, the only God. It is logically possible, I suppose, for God to have incarnated as Krishna before Christ, but given the nature of their lives, their teachings and the development of understanding from those teachings, my nod goes to Christ – far more to the heart of the deep questions of about the nature and meaning of life.

This is to say nothing of all the consorts of Krishna, so were they all gods, too? And the other manifestations of deity within Hinduism? Where does it end?

In short there are all kinds of reasons for believing Jesus over Krishna. I am certain about Jesus. He is real food and real drink.

By the way, I did read the Bhagavad-Gita in an eastern philosophies course I took many years ago and I didn’t find it very compelling then, nor have I since. The eastern philosophies I found most compelling were those whose founders made no such claims about being God – Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism, especially the first. I found Lao Tse to be very Christ-like and the Te-Tao Ching most inspiring precisely because of its similarities to the teachings of Christ, especially its proximity to the Beatitudes. Lao Tse lived 600 years before Christ and was a naturally holy man.

I don’t believe Krishna ever said that he was the only God. In another verse, Krishna identifies himself with Rama (a previous Hindu incarnation of Vishnu), in other words saying that Rama was also God.

I don’t think Jesus contradicts anything Krishna said, but choosing one God over another is standard Hindu practice. It is up to the devotee who he wishes to worship, since all worship ultimately goes to the same source.

If fact, there is nothing wrong with totally rejecting Krishna and only accepting Jesus. The problem will only occur if a new incarnation appears and he is not Jesus. If such an incarnation provides incontrovertible proof that he is God - that will be a devastating shock to your belief system. Such an event may occur sooner than you expect.

 

[Servant19]

Clearly, from your quote, Krishna thought he was the only one worthy of sacrifices. Ergo, the only God. It is logically possible, I suppose, for God to have incarnated as Krishna before Christ, but given the nature of their lives, their teachings and the development of understanding from those teachings, my nod goes to Christ – far more to the heart of the deep questions of about the nature and meaning of life.

This is to say nothing of all the consorts of Krishna, so were they all gods, too? And the other manifestations of deity within Hinduism? Where does it end?

In short there are all kinds of reasons for believing Jesus over Krishna. I am certain about Jesus. He is real food and real drink.

By the way, I did read the Bhagavad-Gita in an eastern philosophies course I took many years ago and I didn’t find it very compelling then, nor have I since. The eastern philosophies I found most compelling were those whose founders made no such claims about being God – Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism, especially the first. I found Lao Tse to be very Christ-like and the Te-Tao Ching most inspiring precisely because of its similarities to the teachings of Christ, especially its proximity to the Beatitudes. Lao Tse lived 600 years before Christ and was a naturally holy man.

.

I don’t believe Krishna ever said that he was the only God. In another verse, Krishna identifies himself with Rama (a previous Hindu incarnation of Vishnu), in other words saying that Rama was also God.

I don’t think Jesus contradicts anything Krishna said, but choosing one God over another is standard Hindu practice. It is up to the devotee who he wishes to worship, since all worship ultimately goes to the same source.

If fact, there is nothing wrong with totally rejecting Krishna and only accepting Jesus. The problem will only occur if a new incarnation appears and he is not Jesus. If such an incarnation provides incontrovertible proof that he is God - that will be a devastating shock to your belief system. Such an event may occur sooner than you expect.

This conversation between you both is almost head bangingly frustrating since the Baha’i Revelation reconciles all of these beliefs into a ONE GOD theology.

The beauty being missed is sad to witness indeed.

I leave you both to your spiritual journeys. God bless

.

 

[Servant19]

when people stopped asking ’ what does this mean’, and started doing their own interpretation, the result is as you’ve done here - applying teachings incorrectly to suit a narrative, which would lead down a path away from what is true.

Some might say that applying a specific instruction universally in order to beat it down is called building a strawman.

Of which the only response is to point it out, so you might see the disconnect in your argument.

Two specific instructions should not lead one to a conclusion that God is correcting Himself in a different point in time.

That comes across like the person holding that thought thinks God is not perfect.

I absolutely think God is perfect but I don’t see the disconnect in my post

Would you mind clarifying please?

.

 

[MartinJordan]

It truly is an amazing part of human history.

Merry Christmas to you all. May you always see Christ in all things

.

Merry CHRISTmas to you too. Rejoice!

He’s entrenched always in our hearts, prayerlife, motivations and to make this world a better place. Because alll are invited to choose Heaven as our final home through him, with him and in him, by giving all the message of eternal life. Every Mass reminds us (using Bible scripture [Jesus foretold] and especially through the Eucharist.

The choice is ours. As he wants all in Heaven. Amen :harp:

MJ