is NFP a sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chiefsinner
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
lifeisbeautiful said:
That may just be it. Never in a million years would I say God, I don’t want to receive another eternal soul because I would like to make sure I can take vacations and do fun things. God works in interesting ways, and we have been able to take trips and do fun things even though money has been tight. When we die, it won’t matter if we took our kids to Disney (although we were able to do it last year after very careful planning, for a lot less than what I have seen packages for families of 4 go). We do fun things with the kids all the time, it doesn’t always have to cost money (although we have been blessed in unexpected ways to be able to go on airplane trips to see family etc). I’m glad we didn’t stop our family size in order to do these things, because it turned out we have been able to do a lot anyway, but even if we wouldn’t have
. My dad died when I was little. I am glad my parents did not stop having kids (we were 4, my brother was 1 when my dad died) because of wanting to make sure they could pay for our college. It turns out we were all able to get a bachelor’s degree or higher. On the other hand, I do know people that have had their college paid for by their parents and never got a degree… so even if one does have the money to pay for it, it may not happen.
I’m glad they were open to receive my brother (and me!) instead of wanting to have more control over the future. There is a difference between not being able to pay for food/not having any sources of food and not being able to pay for a trip to Europe or Niagara Falls. Money, opportunities, etc, can come and go, but our gifts of fertility and time just go.
Click to expand...
I think that’s a lovely perspective. I think some people are better suited to just accepting as many kids as come along. Maybe those people have less anxiety, a more optimistic outlook, are more flexible… We’re close to having number five and Lord help me, we’re done. Selfish or not, I need a break, and so does my husband - and by the time I have that break I’ll be in my 40s, which is beyond my comfort zone for a pregnancy.

Of course there is a difference between not being able to obtain food and not going to Europe, but I do think we should be able to have some quality of life in this world. Yes, we could reduce our existence to absolute needs, but I don’t think God requires it. For us, that quality of life means we do need some extra money, but more than that means I need to not be hung over a toilet bowl, on bedrest, dealing with complicated pregnancies and caring for colicky newborns while trying to be there for my older kids and husband.
 
Part of the beauty of NFP is how it is an open dialog with God, one can discern one has serious reasons now, and that may change later on!

Spunjalebi and Mary Gail, I had never seen that article about Humanae Vitae/Pope Paul VI etc, that is interesting!
 
I just wanted to say, everyone has contributed interesting information and thoughts to this topic. A couple of things really stick out to me about this:

One, the marriage preparation regarding NFP isn’t taught in the manner it should be. I’ve talked to other people who married in the Church, and I also read online what people say about NFP use. I think people don’t understand what NFP really is within the context of a marriage. Some I think don’t care to understand for whatever their anti-Catholic reasons are…but the rest just don’t understand because they don’t see the differences between contraception and NFP.

The other thing that stuck out to me is how is the Church allowing teaching to become so convoluted that people don’t even know what actual Church teaching is? I mean I admit I was surprised to find out that the phrase “open to life” isn’t even in actual teaching. Did people along the line just make things up as a response to modernism? Such as the words “unitive” and “procreative.” I had no idea that limiting children in a family wasn’t a sin in and of itself. I had always heard of “grave reasons,” and then I find out there are “just reasons,” but it’s up to the couple to decide what those are. I consider myself a rather knowledgeable Catholic (a convert, however) but when I talk to people who’ve been Catholic their whole lives about this, they know even less than I do.
 
spunjalebi said:
One, the marriage preparation regarding NFP isn’t taught in the manner it should be.
Click to expand...
In my case, it wasn’t taught at all. I knew nothing of NFP or the Church’s position on contraceptives until I started poking around various Catholic forums.
 
spunjalebi said:
The other thing that stuck out to me is how is the Church allowing teaching to become so convoluted that people don’t even know what actual Church teaching is? I mean I admit I was surprised to find out that the phrase “open to life” isn’t even in actual teaching. Did people along the line just make things up as a response to modernism? Such as the words “unitive” and “procreative.” I had no idea that limiting children in a family wasn’t a sin in and of itself.
Click to expand...
But you do see how there are situations in which a couple needs to avoid having children (a classic example, to the best of the knowledge of all consulted in the medical community, the mother and baby would not make it through another pregnancy)? In that case, how could it be sinful for a couple to use prudence to avoid? This is very different from being selfish or wanting to have complete control and not trust in Him.
spunjalebi said:
I had always heard of “grave reasons,” and then I find out there are “just reasons,” but it’s up to the couple to decide what those are. I consider myself a rather knowledgeable Catholic (a convert, however) but when I talk to people who’ve been Catholic their whole lives about this, they know even less than I do.
Click to expand...
I would say it is more discern than decide. They are making a decision, but it is done through prayer, to try to hear God’s will, not their own, and it is done (hopefully!) with a formed conscience, taking into consideration what the Church teaches. The Church doesn’t say, it is up to you all, choose whatever you want! I’ve quoted this part of the Catechism a couple of times in this thread 😃 but I will do it again here:
2371 "Let all be convinced that human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny."160
Click to expand...
and this one:
It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood.
Click to expand...
So the Church does tell the couples they must make sure the motives are not motivated by selfishness (I can tell you, I could come up with reasons that would make others convinced I have enough reasons to avoid, but my motives could be selfishness, using those excuses to not have to go through morning sickness, newborn stage, yadda yadda, not necessarily that my husband and I feel like we need to avoid.)

Also, the Catechism mentions our duty to transmit life and how that is not limited by the horizons of this life only, making it pretty clear that we can’t just take into account our temporal life here on earth, but the full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny… that is something big!

See, it isn’t about coming up with an excuse that sounds just, it is about truly examining ourselves and seeing if we are being as generous as we can, being responsible parents (which may or may not include NFP, but always includes raising our children in the Faith), and whether we are seeking God’s will or our own. It isn’t the Church saying, ok couples, you are on your own coming up with your family size, it is the Church saying we are interpreters, cooperators.
2367 Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God.153 "Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realize that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfill this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility."154
Click to expand...
It is truly awesome that God has included us in this amazing part of life!
 
spunjalebi said:
The other thing that stuck out to me is how is the Church allowing teaching to become so convoluted that people don’t even know what actual Church teaching is? I mean I admit I was surprised to find out that the phrase “open to life” isn’t even in actual teaching. Did people along the line just make things up as a response to modernism? Such as the words “unitive” and “procreative.” I had no idea that limiting children in a family wasn’t a sin in and of itself. I had always heard of “grave reasons,” and then I find out there are “just reasons,” but it’s up to the couple to decide what those are. I consider myself a rather knowledgeable Catholic (a convert, however) but when I talk to people who’ve been Catholic their whole lives about this, they know even less than I do.
Click to expand...
That’s an easy one to answer. There are two billion at-least nominal Catholics in the world. There are more than 2,000 dioceses worldwide. The Church is the world’s largest and oldest continuously running bureaucracy. And there is so much more to the Church’s teachings on contraception.

And in many places where the Church is growing, like Africa, the biggest issue is not contraception. It’s continued practices like animism or praying to dead relatives or dealing with hostile Muslim populations. We focus on such a narrow slice in threads like these that we don’t see all of the various things the Church has to deal with.

As a for instance, what’s a bigger problem with the Church in the West? Clarifying her teaching on contraception and NFP, or restoring credibility with the rank-and-file by eradicating every last shred of the disgusting child abuse scandal? I daresay the latter. Church leaders can’t even begin a dialogue with the rank and file on this issue until they restore their credibility by not only ending the practices of protecting pedophiles from criminal prosecution but also gaining distance from those scandals and other scandals by radically cracking down on any and all abuses be they sexual or financial.

You can’t go around telling married laity that they need to stop using contraception when you’ve got priests abusing children and bishops and cardinals covering up massive money laundering scandals. You just can’t! The doctrine is what it is and the clergy are not wrong to instruct the laity as they are… but no one is going to listen because all they see are the far worse sins being committed by the clergy. All they see are Pharisees. And I can’t blame them.

This isn’t a rip on the Church. This is simply noting that the clergy have bigger problems than simply trying to push a harder line or provide better teaching on contraception. We as lay folks should be taking the lead on this issue. This is a great situation for married laity to step up to the plate and evangelize, especially to fellow Catholics who show up on Sunday but aren’t properly catechized through no fault of their own. They are the receptive audience. Play to the potentially receptive audiences who are merely ignorant and then, with bolstered ranks, we can preach to the slightly more hostile audiences within our own Catholic community. Once they are won over, or at least given the message to take it or leave it, we can take the message to the world.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top