Is objective truth mathematics?

[STT]

Lets define objective truth as a set mind independent rules that every state of truth can be derived from it. Now lets look at reality and see how well laws of physics describes the state and evolution of Cosmos. Laws of physics however is derivable from mathematics. So question which comes to mind is whether mathematics is objective truth.

How do you define objective truth and do you think that mathematics could be objective truth?

 

[thinkandmull]

Even math has cliches in it

 

[STT]

Even math has cliches in it

Yes, but those cliches are probably resolvable.

 

[GEddie]

An objective truth is one that an error-free mind process will in time lead to. There are many objective truths, describing various levels of existence, but they all go together.

Mathematics would be one of them.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Tomdstone]

Mathematical theorems are objectively true, regardless of how you subjectively feel about them. For example, in euclidean geometry, the Pythagorean theorem is true independently of what your personal beliefs or prejudices are and it will hold true in all cultures even if they do not recognize it to be true.

 

[John_Martin]

“Objective truth” is truth of individual objects.
Mathematics is an art of working in objective reality (the reality of individuals) utilizing the higher knowledge of universal truths in relation to individuals.
Knowing “One”, or “unity”, etc., are universal truth, and not mathematics, but mathematics is a derived or secondary science.
Numbers, etc., are individuals that are understandable only in the face of understanding the universal of unity while in the objective consideration of the individual objective reality.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Lets define objective truth as a set mind independent rules that every state of truth can be derived from it. … So question which comes to mind is whether mathematics is objective truth.

Have you ever heard of Kurt Gödel?

tee

 

[on_the_hill]

I don’t have a strong background in math.

The answer is: Yes. Insofar as math goes.
I do believe there is objective truth in math exactly because it is a human construct. Because we make the rules, we can make it objective.

That being said, I am an agnostic about math. I believe that there are many mathematical “miracles” in the natural world/universe/cosmos, but I also believe that math is an expression of humans. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you have an extremely powerful hammer, like math–math solves everything, whether or not it truly does, from a metaphysical, meta-universal perspective.

 

[STT]

An objective truth is one that an error-free mind process will in time lead to. There are many objective truths, describing various levels of existence, but they all go together.

Mathematics would be one of them.

ICXC NIKA

Do you have another example rather than mathematics?

 

[STT]

Mathematical theorems are objectively true, regardless of how you subjectively feel about them. For example, in euclidean geometry, the Pythagorean theorem is true independently of what your personal beliefs or prejudices are and it will hold true in all cultures even if they do not recognize it to be true.

Actually, I was wondering whether mathematics is absolute/ultimate truth.

 

[STT]

“Objective truth” is truth of individual objects.

Objective truth is a set of abstract rules/principals. So I disagree with you.

Mathematics is an art of working in objective reality (the reality of individuals) utilizing the higher knowledge of universal truths in relation to individuals.

In Mathematics, we defines relation between what you call individuals. Mathematics is bigger than individuals.

Knowing “One”, or “unity”, etc., are universal truth, and not mathematics, but mathematics is a derived or secondary science.

I don’t think so. One, unity, etc are a part of mathematics.

Numbers, etc., are individuals that are understandable only in the face of understanding the universal of unity while in the objective consideration of the individual objective reality.

What do you mean with objective consideration?

 

[STT]

Have you ever heard of Kurt Gödel?

tee

Yes. How this is related to this discussion?

 

[Tomdstone]

Actually, I was wondering whether mathematics is absolute/ultimate truth.

Well. there is no mathematical formula which will tell you how to reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of an all knowing, all loving, all powerful God. And I am not aware of a mathematical formula which will tell you how human free will fits in with a deterministic principle of causality. And the mind-body problem is also elusive. But what mathematics does tell you is objectively true regardless of how you feel about it.

 

[STT]

Well. there is no mathematical formula which will tell you how to reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of an all knowing, all loving, all powerful God.

Objective/absolute truth is defined as a set mind independent rules that every state of truth can be derived from it (evil for example). The main column in starting a mathematical framework is to define rules. The rest is derived from by analytical thinking so I don’t see any difference between absolute truth and mathematics. Do you?

And I am not aware of a mathematical formula which will tell you how human free will fits in with a deterministic principle of causality.

There are two solutions to problem of free will: (1) Nondeterministic rules and (2) An infinite set of deterministic rules.

And the mind-body problem is also elusive. But what mathematics does tell you is objectively true regardless of how you feel about it.

I don’t really know what mind is. We don’t even have any way to prove that it exists. All we know is that we experience our inner and outer worlds. We simply know that we are conscious being yet don’t have a theory which explain consciousness. Consciousness is a property of mind so to me we cannot understand mind until we understand conscious. I am don’t think if we are cognitively open to understand mind if there is really any. I have a thread on understanding understanding here which can give you what I mean with being cognitively open.

 

[Tomdstone]

I don’t see any difference between absolute truth and mathematics. Do you?

Yes I do.
Mathematics is absolute truth.
There are absolute truths which are not mathematics, at least, I don’t see the mathematical formulation of them.

 

[STT]

Yes I do.
Mathematics is absolute truth.
There are absolute truths which are not mathematics, at least, I don’t see the mathematical formulation of them.

First, we don’t know how far mathematics can go. Second, you need to provide an argument against what is stated in the fist comment of post #14. We start mathematics with a set of rules, absolute truth is also a set of rules, so I don’t see any difference in this sense.

 

[Tomdstone]

First, we don’t know how far mathematics can go. Second, you need to provide an argument against what is stated in the fist comment of post #14. We start mathematics with a set of rules, absolute truth is also a set of rules, so I don’t see any difference in this sense.

If you would kindly give me a mathematical formula which will tell me exactly when I want to raise my hand and when I want to move the big toe on my left foot, then I will believe you.

 

[STT]

If you would kindly give me a mathematical formula which will tell me exactly when I want to raise my hand and when I want to move the big toe on my left foot, then I will believe you.

This is already explained in post #14: There are two solutions to problem of free will: (1) Nondeterministic rules (you can read more about this in here) and (2) An infinite set of deterministic rules.

I am no sure if human has free will at least within physicalist picture. What we call want is a simple mental state which reaches to a specific form when it can be experienced. Mental state is the result of processes in the brain. This means that what we call want obeys the laws of physics.

 

[Tomdstone]

This is already explained in post #14: There are two solutions to problem of free will: (1) Nondeterministic rules (you can read more about this in here) and (2) An infinite set of deterministic rules.

I am no sure if human has free will at least within physicalist picture. What we call want is a simple mental state which reaches to a specific form when it can be experienced. Mental state is the result of processes in the brain. This means that what we call want obeys the laws of physics.

I don’t see the mathematical equation for that.

 

[o_mlly]

Lets define objective truth as a set mind independent rules that every state of truth can be derived from it.

A definition of a word that uses the same word is circular. I offer the conformance definition of truth below.

Now lets look at reality and see how well laws of physics describes the state and evolution of Cosmos. Laws of physics however is derivable from mathematics. So question which comes to mind is whether mathematics is objective truth.

The conformance definition of “truth” allows no adjectives of degree. Knowledge is either true or false. Applied to “truth,” the adjectives “absolute,” “objective,” or “subjective.” do not add to, diminish or categorize “truth” in any meaningful way.

Mathematics deals with ideal objects, not real things. However, mathematics, as you point out, is quite fruitful and practical in its explanatory power for understanding the natural and social sciences.

How do you define objective truth and do you think that mathematics could be objective truth?

Knowledge is neither subjective or objective but merely true or false. True knowledge is knowledge that conforms to reality. Reality is singular and independent of any created thinking mind.

Mathematics is a science and, akin to its cousins, has a future. However, unlike its cousins, mathematics (despite Godel’s argument) is the science upon which we expect the most complete agreement among all its practitioners.