Is purgatory doctrine or dogma?

[PazzoGrande]

Is purgatory doctrine or dogma?

 

[RyanBlack]

Dogma–the teaching on Purgatory was expressed at the Council of Florence, and the Council of Trent.

 

[PazzoGrande]

But if it’s dogma, how come Eastern Catholics don’t all subscribe to it?

 

[RyanBlack]

All individual Eastern Catholics, or on the level of official Church teaching? I don’t think you will find an Eastern Catholic Church that denies Purgatory on the level of official teaching coming from the bishops.

 

[EterniTea]

Thank you Deacon Jeff. That was a very informative post.

 

[Memaw]

Is purgatory doctrine or dogma?

A Dogma is a defined Doctrine, as taught by the Church . It has always been believed since the beginning of the Catholic Church and has to be believed by every Catholic. In the Catacombs there are inscriptions of prays for the dead. R.I.P is really a prayer that the person will ‘rest in peace’. God Bless, Memaw

 

[EterniTea]

That’s very nice to hear! I’ve always appreciated what JPII said about the Eastern and Western traditions.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Indeed, very informative. For what it’s worth Cardinal Ratzinger in his book Eschatology and also as Pope Benedict in Spe Salvi describes Purgatory more similarly to the Eastern view you describe here, describing it not as a “sit and suffer” event, but an encounter with Christ that melts us into the mold that is himself, which he draws from the smelting of metal described in 1 Cor. 3:10-15.

 

[steve_b]

But if it’s dogma, how come Eastern Catholics don’t all subscribe to it?

Here’s from an Eastern Catholic Bishop in a Q/A

melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-john/how-do-the-popes-encyclicals-and-teachings-impact-on-the-melkites

 

[Tony_the_mad]

Here’s from an Eastern Catholic Bishop in a Q/A

melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-john/how-do-the-popes-encyclicals-and-teachings-impact-on-the-melkites

It is not about purgatory but about truth and how it should be accepted with respect to the differences between the east and the west. It is a powerful document that is well worth reading. Thanks.

 

[steve_b]

It is not about purgatory but about truth and how it should be accepted with respect to the differences between the east and the west. It is a powerful document that is well worth reading. Thanks.

I’ve quoted Bp John many times in the past. IMV, he explains things extremely well.

particularly when he points out from that link

" Catholic is Catholic and truth is truth. We cannot pose as “Orthodox united to Rome” only for what suits us. I do mean it when we pray every day, at the Divine Liturgy, for “unity of faith and the communion of the Holy Spirit.”
There is no ‘Eastern truth’ vs ‘Western truth’. Truth is one. It may be articulated according to various cultural expressions, but truth is super-cultural. Truth should not be restricted by “party line” positions. We should accept or reject ideas for their worth and not for an artificial attachment to a given “identity.” The Church teaches truth. If something is true, it would be absurd to say “Oh, we don’t believe that in the East.” This seems to be where we get short-circuited in ecumenical “dialogue.” All too frequently, such “dialogue” seems to presuppose a relativism where you speak “your truth” and I’ll speak “my truth” and we’ll just leave it at that. A sort of ecumenical schizophrenia.

[snip]

Here are two relevant canons from OUR Eastern Catholic Church Law:
c. 597 CCEO: “The Roman Pontiff, in virtue of his office (munus), possesses infallible teaching authority if, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the Christian faithful who is to confirm his fellow believers in the faith, he proclaims with a definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held.”
c. 599: :A religious obsequium of intellect and will, even if not the assent of faith, is to be paid to the teaching of faith and morals which the Roman Pontiff or the college of bishops enunciate when they exercise the authentic magisterium even if they do not intend to proclaim with a definitive act.; therefore the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid whatever is not in harmony with that teaching.”

 

[Eddy_NZ]

Hi there
This is my first post. I am a Chaldean Catholic.
We do believe in Purgatory and we call it “Mat her”, which is Purgatory in Arabic. I don’t know the proper Aramaic word for it.
My understanding the Catholic Coptic and the Catholic Syriac also believe it in.
Actually we believe in all Dogmas and Doctrines of the Catholic Church without exception including the Primacy of the See of St Peter in Rome.
Thank you all and God Bless

 

[paulrxp]

There are Catholics who I’ve spoken to who do not believe this is Dogma. Yes I know, it surprised me as well. They believe that Purgatory exists as the Dogma defines it, but for some reason they don’t believe it as being Dogmatic if that makes any sense.

I’m not sure why they brought Vatican II into the mix, but they believe V2 defined it as just a teaching. I always thought the Council of Trent defined it by it’s language as Dogma and made was made infallible by the magisterium .

 

[steve_b]

There are Catholics who I’ve spoken to who do not believe this is Dogma. Yes I know, it surprised me as well. They believe that Purgatory exists as the Dogma defines it, but for some reason they don’t believe it as being Dogmatic if that makes any sense.

I’m not sure why they brought Vatican II into the mix, but they believe V2 defined it as just a teaching. I always thought the Council of Trent defined it by it’s language as Dogma and made was made infallible by the magisterium .

Next time you talk to them point them in this direction

 

[ProVobis]

From the 25th session of Trent:

Sessio Vigesimaquinta, Twenty-fifth Session,
cœpta die III. absoluta die IV. Decembris 1563.

DECRETUM DE PURGATORIO.

Cum Catholica Ecclesia, Spiritu Sancto edocta ex sacris litteris et antiqua patrum traditione, in sacris conciliis et novissime in hoc œcumenica synodo docuerit, purgatorium esse, animasque ibi detentas, fidelium suffragiis, potissimum vero acceptabili altaris sacrificio, juvari; præcipit sancta synodus episcopis, ut sanam de purgatorio doctrinam a sanctis patribus et sacris conciliis traditam, a Christi fidelibus credi, teneri, doceri et ubique prædicari diligenter studeant.

Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has, from the Sacred Writings and the ancient tradition of the Fathers, taught, in sacred Councils, and very recently in this œcumenical Synod, that there is a Purgatory, and that the souls there detained are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar,—the holy Synod enjoins on bishops that they diligently endeavor that the sound doctrine concerning Purgatory, transmitted by the holy Fathers and sacred Councils, be believed, maintained, taught, and every where proclaimed by the faithful of Christ.

That would be a dogmatic decree, I believe.

ccel.org/ccel/schaff/creeds2.v.i.i.xii.html

There’s also a related anathema.

Related Canon 30 from the Council of Trent’s Decree on Justification (Sixth Sesssion, 1547)

Canon XXX.—Si quis post acceptam justificationis gratiam cuilibet peccatori pœnitenti ita culpam remitti et reatum æternæ pænæ deleri dixerit, ut nullus remaneat reatus pænæ temporalis exsolvendæ vel in hoc seculo, vel in futuro in purgatorio, antequam ad regna cœlorum aditus patere possit: anathema sit.

1. If anyone says that after the grace of justification has been received the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out for any repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be paid, either in this world or in the other, in purgatory, before access can be opened to the kingdom of heaven, anathema sit “let him be anathema” or excommunicated].