Is Scrupulosity a Catholic Problem?

[LilyM]

I disagree! What it means is that you have to take penance and firm purpose of amendment more seriously. Quality confessions are better than frequent ones. Someone who confesses every week and isn’t changing isn’t taking the firm purpose of amendment part too seriously. Either that, or (s)he is in habitual sins of weakness.

Let’s turn your analogy around. What kind of a relationship is it where a spouse apologizes frequently to the other spouse, but never DOES anything to change. Might as well throw the apologies out the window.

Oh I agree, firm purpose to amend must be present, and making the effort to go to confession at an early stage is in and of itself is a sign of the high likelihood of such purpose existing.

Using your same analogy it’d be the poorest sort of relationship where someone hurt their spouse frequently and didn’t EVEN bother to apologise on those occasions when they did so, even if it wasn’t the perfect apology and even if there was a likelihood of relapse.

See, as humans we understand, or need to understand if we don’t, when our family and friends hurt us, that the strong desire to change may be present but the flesh is much weaker than the will, and that change takes time.

Nonetheless a sincere apology never goes amiss while the person is trying to figure out how best to tackle the necessary changes, even if it might take time to root out the behaviour.

Same thing for confession.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Another example of God playing a guessing game. For some people it’s so easy, or not so difficult. For others, putting your entire life into perspective, what you do, your illness, etc. it’s not so easy, it is difficult.

Confession is not a magic room where you get “clensed.” Upon entering, your heart should be no different upon exiting. Since you’ve decided to go, that shows you’re seeking forgivness for what you’ve done, and want to change. If you’re going just “to go,” because frankly it’s how you were brought up, or hey, it’s what “my” Church teaches, and you’re heart in not in it, it means nothing!

It’s all in a person’s heart, not rules, not regulations, nor a guessing game. Jesus gave His apostles the power to forgive sins, His Holy Spirit is present when we’re in there, we have a priest (another fellow human) to talk with us about our sin, and to give us advice about doing better, and to tell us after we have confessed (the biggest blessing of all) that our “sins are forgiven.” Humans NEED to hear that, it’s a grace of God and why I believe He set it up that way.

But that doesn’t mean He can’t forgive any other way, say if one didn’t make it to Confession, or if something else occurred. again you don’t know a person’s heart, only God does, and my God does not play a mere guessing game of “let’s see who picks correctly” or “let’s see who makes it ‘on time’ to the confessional. Oh, that one missed it by five minutes, ah too bad, off to Hell he goes.”

No way! God is merciful!!

I would agree with you on some points. But if you have a mortal sin on your soul, that means that you have knowingly and actively rejected God’s laws. You cannot just put off doing what He demands of you, presumming that He will not be justified in allowing you to suffer the consequences of your own decisions not to go to Confession as soon as possible. How difficult to call the rectory and go to Confession the following day? You seem to think that it is not very important. The Church takes and addresses Mortal sin as very important. So, shouldn’t we? If laws weren’t important, why did God give them to us and tell us to obey them? And where did Jesus ever tell us to take God’s mercy and forgiveness for granted?

Yes, if you have not been ABLE to go to Confession before you die, if you have perfect contrition, I believe that the Church states that it can be forgiven. Why in the world would someone take that chance? And why would someone take for granted the word ABLE? And how can a person be sure that they have perfect contrition?

These are serious things when talking about mortal sins. There is a reason that they are called mortal.

 

[DL82]

I’d say there’s a difference between being scrupulous in the common sense meaning of the word, i.e. being very careful, and the spiritual illness of scrupulosity.

The illness may either be a kind of OCD, or may stem from misunderstanding God’s love. A very good priest helped me through the onset of such problems, and said they often stem (as was true in my case) from having conditional love in the family when growing up. The scrupulous person tries to earn God’s love, but can’t do that, so instead tries to earn His forgiveness in confession by enumerating every tiny imperfection.

Importantly, Martin Luther suffered from a form of scrupulosity, so it’s not just a Catholic problem.

 

[Pray4Life]

Importantly, Martin Luther suffered from a form of scrupulosity, so it’s not just a Catholic problem.

Well, I’m not sure if that’s too good an argument, since he was still Catholic when he started having that problem. Still, I agree with you that it’s not just a Catholic issue, definitely.

 

[Dark_Warrior]

I would agree with you on some points. But if you have a mortal sin on your soul, that means that you have knowingly and actively rejected God’s laws. You cannot just put off doing what He demands of you, presumming that He will not be justified in allowing you to suffer the consequences of your own decisions not to go to Confession as soon as possible. How difficult to call the rectory and go to Confession the following day? You seem to think that it is not very important. The Church takes and addresses Mortal sin as very important. So, shouldn’t we? If laws weren’t important, why did God give them to us and tell us to obey them? And where did Jesus ever tell us to take God’s mercy and forgiveness for granted?

Yes, if you have not been ABLE to go to Confession before you die, if you have perfect contrition, I believe that the Church states that it can be forgiven. Why in the world would someone take that chance? And why would someone take for granted the word ABLE? And how can a person be sure that they have perfect contrition?

These are serious things when talking about mortal sins. There is a reason that they are called mortal.

I take mortal sin seriously. If I’m at mass and am conscious of a mortal sin, I don’t go up for the Eucharist, and am heartbroken becaus eof it. But again, you don’t know a person’s heart, their faults, reasons for faults, their MENTAL faults and so on! It’s not as easy for some as it may be for you brother.

When we’re in Confession, we have to be sorry for our sins, not simply confess it like a mindless robot desiring absolution. Just because someone sins on Thursday, and goes to Confession Saturday, doesn’t mean they don’t take Mortal Sin as unimportant, or God’s grace for granted. God doesn’t push you as if you were on a time table or race, waiting to see if you can “make it to the confessional” on time.

Our hearts have to be turned over to Him.

I will never, absolutely EVER believe that God plays a guessing game or goes by a time schedule when it comes to our sins. If we have sined, go to the confessional, by either appointment or the coming Saturday. God’s not going to lightning strike you down if you choose the latter. But I agree to NOT hold it off for a month, or even two weeks.

If you’re against Saturday confession, and think appointment is “the way,” then march out tomorrow and protest against the Church with her stanc eon Saturday Confession.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Before I begin this post, I want everyone to know that I have not read any posts since my last post.

I am concerned that I have made it sound as though I am not understanding or compassionate to those who suffer with the problem of scrupulosity. I beleive that the problem exists, and I believe that it is a genuine problem. I hope that I will remember to pray for all those who suffer through it.

That being said, I have meant everything I have said about the need of a person who has committed any mortal sins to get to the Sacrament of Reconciliation as quickly as possible. The need to get to Confession after committing such a serious sin is imperative to our souls and relationship with Jesus.

Is it not true that when one sins it is disobedience to God? and is it not also true that once you have stepped away from His grace by committing sin…especially a mortal sin…it is easier to committ more sin? And then after a while, the sins add up? And then, we become like the prodigal son who waited a long time after he had run out of money and food before he felt desperate enough to turn back to his father.
In my own experience, after not going to Confession almost immediately after committing a mortal sin, and I fall into sin more and more, I feel afraid and so ashamed of myself that I wait even longer before going. I am faced with my unworthiness, so I put it off. It then takes a moment of desperation before I turn back to God.

Jesus knows this about humanity. He gave us this Sacrament. St. Paul tells us to run when we are faced with temptation. I believe it all ties together, in that we should also run to the forgiveness of Jesus as soon as we fall. At the point when we committ that mortal sin, we lose His grace. And at that point, we NEED His grace more than ever to be able to reach out to Him again.

Does any of this make sense?

I truly pray for all those who are scrupulous and have a hard time seeing the real sins that they committ against those Satan wants to put into their mind to confuse them. Pray, and believe that Jesus loves you. And I truly believe that He wants you to get the counseling from a priest, so that you can be healed of this problem of scrupulosity. Find a good priest who does not mind seeing you in the Confessional, and who will spend time with you to help you overcome this problem.

Ask Jesus, His Blessed Mother, and your guardian angels to lead you to the priest He has chosen and prepared to help you…you especially.

I am sorry if I have given the impression that I am not understanding, or that I am unsympathetic to your problems.

Pray the Rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. And go to Mass daily if you can. And if you can find it in your heart, and if you remember…please also pray for me. I have my own set of problems and weaknesses. Mine is laziness and disobedience to His laws. I will also try to remember to pray for you.

 

[DL82]

Well, I’m not sure if that’s too good an argument, since he was still Catholic when he started having that problem. Still, I agree with you that it’s not just a Catholic issue, definitely.

In a way, it was his scrupulosity that led him away from the Catholic Church. When someone is so worried about their sins that they don’t know what they can do or where they can turn without sinning, then the devil puts that awful thought into their head: “maybe the Church is also conquered by sin”.

The same seems to be true of Calvin, who saw angels and demons everywhere, and seems to have believed that even men living saintly lives for everyone to see might not be among God’s elect.

Maybe the same could be said for the Jansenists, who became so stubborn in their error that many of them left the Church and joined the Dutch Old Catholics rather than repent, or even of the Lefebvrists and their scrupulous understanding of the precise and ideosyncratic requirements for a ‘valid’ Council and a ‘valid’ liturgy.

Scrupulosity is not Catholic, scrupulosity is dangerous to Catholicism!

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Not having read any of the posts, I would tend to say yes. I say this because if I were protestant, and firmly believed in “Once saved, always saved” I would think I would have nothing to worry about. This belief gives a false security that one is unable to sin once they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[bcuster]

Scrupulosity is akin to OCD in my opinion. People become consumed with the idea of everything being a sin. They start to see everything in ways that even they know do not make sense.

I agree totally. Obsessiveness and Compusion drive scrupiuosity. Catholic teachings do not lead to scrupulosity in fact, I find the Catholic Fatih to be freeing. Faith and reason work together to form the human person. For example: The law or expectation is: Every Cathoic is to attend Mass on Sunday. However this does not bind if you are ill, if you are somewhere where there is no Mass within traveling distance, if there is an emergency that keeps you from Mass (a spouse has a stroke, a child has emergency surgery, etc)

There are people who have been taught an unhealthy version of the Catholic Faith where faith and reason are not matched.

I am sure that many other religions can lead to scrupulosity. Especially those that emphasize control over the followers and emphasize eternal damnation for every small infraction. Their are scrupulous Jews, Muslims, Protestant Christians, etc.

 

[Dark_Warrior]

Before I begin this post, I want everyone to know that I have not read any posts since my last post.

I am concerned that I have made it sound as though I am not understanding or compassionate to those who suffer with the problem of scrupulosity. I beleive that the problem exists, and I believe that it is a genuine problem. I hope that I will remember to pray for all those who suffer through it.

That being said, I have meant everything I have said about the need of a person who has committed any mortal sins to get to the Sacrament of Reconciliation as quickly as possible. The need to get to Confession after committing such a serious sin is imperative to our souls and relationship with Jesus.

Is it not true that when one sins it is disobedience to God? and is it not also true that once you have stepped away from His grace by committing sin…especially a mortal sin…it is easier to committ more sin? And then after a while, the sins add up? And then, we become like the prodigal son who waited a long time after he had run out of money and food before he felt desperate enough to turn back to his father.
In my own experience, after not going to Confession almost immediately after committing a mortal sin, and I fall into sin more and more, I feel afraid and so ashamed of myself that I wait even longer before going. I am faced with my unworthiness, so I put it off. It then takes a moment of desperation before I turn back to God.

Jesus knows this about humanity. He gave us this Sacrament. St. Paul tells us to run when we are faced with temptation. I believe it all ties together, in that we should also run to the forgiveness of Jesus as soon as we fall. At the point when we committ that mortal sin, we lose His grace. And at that point, we NEED His grace more than ever to be able to reach out to Him again.

Does any of this make sense?

I truly pray for all those who are scrupulous and have a hard time seeing the real sins that they committ against those Satan wants to put into their mind to confuse them. Pray, and believe that Jesus loves you. And I truly believe that He wants you to get the counseling from a priest, so that you can be healed of this problem of scrupulosity. Find a good priest who does not mind seeing you in the Confessional, and who will spend time with you to help you overcome this problem.

Ask Jesus, His Blessed Mother, and your guardian angels to lead you to the priest He has chosen and prepared to help you…you especially.

I am sorry if I have given the impression that I am not understanding, or that I am unsympathetic to your problems.

Pray the Rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. And go to Mass daily if you can. And if you can find it in your heart, and if you remember…please also pray for me. I have my own set of problems and weaknesses. Mine is laziness and disobedience to His laws. I will also try to remember to pray for you.

There is wisdom in what you said, I just disagree that one has to, RIGHT AWAY storm off to a priest by appointment. If one wants to, then praise God. But that doesn’t mean everyone who sins onTuesday and decides to seek confession on Saturday doesn’t take his/her faith or sin seriously. Otherwise, Saturday confession should ONLY be for those commiting sins on Friday evening and Saturday morning.

Sorry, I didn’t want to start anything negative, your just making me feel as though I don’t care about God, cause I sinned during last week, and went to Confession on Saturday.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

There is wisdom in what you said, I just disagree that one has to, RIGHT AWAY storm off to a priest by appointment. If one wants to, then praise God. But that doesn’t mean everyone who sins onTuesday and decides to seek confession on Saturday doesn’t take his/her faith or sin seriously. Otherwise, Saturday confession should ONLY be for those commiting sins on Friday evening and Saturday morning.

Sorry, I didn’t want to start anything negative, your just making me feel as though I don’t care about God, cause I sinned during last week, and went to Confession on Saturday.

I am not judging you or anyone else. I am, by far, more guilty than anyone I know…simply because I know better what God wants from me, and I do not obey. And you are doing better than myself at this moment. I have yet to go to Confession for missing Mass on Sunday.
I know that I should have gone to Mass Monday evening when I could have gone to Confession before hand. True, my life is busy. But it goes without saying that the longer I wait, the easier it is to put off going.
Please do not think I believe myself to be any better than anyone else. Yet that does not change what I truly believe we should do after having committed a mortal sin. I am in the wrong right now, and I don’t believe it is a matter of scrupulosity.

 

[Salonika]

I agree totally. Obsessiveness and Compulsion drive scrupulosity. Catholic teachings do not lead to scrupulosity in fact, I find the Catholic Fatih to be freeing…

I am sure that many other religions can lead to scrupulosity. Especially those that emphasize control over the followers and emphasize eternal damnation for every small infraction. Their are scrupulous Jews, Muslims, Protestant Christians, etc.

Think that a number of factors interact to produce scrupulousity - including temperament, upbringing, experiences.

Also think that the faith one is brought up influences how scrupulosity manifests itself or the aspects of our lives where it is expressed. For example, Calvinist scrupulousity often reveals itself in extreme concern for doing one’s duty, not playing until you have completed all your obligations, guilt for taking care of your basic needs.

And of course, people of of no faith can also exhibit scrupulosity.

 

[Dark_Warrior]

I am not judging you or anyone else. I am, by far, more guilty than anyone I know…simply because I know better what God wants from me, and I do not obey. And you are doing better than myself at this moment. I have yet to go to Confession for missing Mass on Sunday.
I know that I should have gone to Mass Monday evening when I could have gone to Confession before hand. True, my life is busy. But it goes without saying that the longer I wait, the easier it is to put off going.
Please do not think I believe myself to be any better than anyone else. Yet that does not change what I truly believe we should do after having committed a mortal sin. I am in the wrong right now, and I don’t believe it is a matter of scrupulosity.

I’M sorry I need help too.