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myrrh
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If yes, how serious is it to be omitted.
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LilyM
Guest
Either the Apostles’ Creed or the Nicene Creed can be used.If yes, how serious is it to be omitted.
There are some circumstances, such as where there is a baptism or a confirmation or at Easter when the whole congregation renews their baptismal promises, when the creed will be omitted. The renewal of baptismal promises is essentially a statement of our beliefs which has the same purpose as a creed.
If it is wrongfully omitted, it is not serious enough to make the Mass invalid. The Mass will still be a real and effective Mass. It does make it illicit - which may be a fault, even a serious one, on the part of the priest who does so.
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paduard
Guest
I was under the impression that use of the Apostles Creed was only permitted at Easter Time. Obviously that rule has been changed for where I am they flick about from one to the other according to the wishes of whoever is celebrating Mass.
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anp1215
Guest
The Order of the Mass says:
“Instead of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, especially during Lent and Easter
Time, the baptismal Symbol of the Roman Church, known as the Apostles’ Creed, may be
used.”
Since it says “especially” and not “only,” it looks like the Apostle’s Creed can be used at any time of the year.
“Instead of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, especially during Lent and Easter
Time, the baptismal Symbol of the Roman Church, known as the Apostles’ Creed, may be
used.”
Since it says “especially” and not “only,” it looks like the Apostle’s Creed can be used at any time of the year.
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Evan
Guest
I would think it would not be very serious sinceIf yes, how serious is it to be omitted.
- It’s not always required.
and - One could could substitute other creeds
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LilyM
Guest
Yes, along with the recent changes in wording of the prayers of the Mass, it is also now permitted to use either Creed.I was under the impression that use of the Apostles Creed was only permitted at Easter Time. Obviously that rule has been changed for where I am they flick about from one to the other according to the wishes of whoever is celebrating Mass.
J
John_Lilburne
Guest
From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM):
“68. The Creed is to be sung or said by the priest together with the people on Sundays and Solemnities. It may be said also at particular celebrations of a more solemn character.”
The 2002 Roman Missal’s Order of Mass, n. 19, allows either the Nicene or Apostles Creed at any Mass. (Missale Romanum, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2002, ISBN: 8820972719, page 513).
The Creed is optional when there are the Scrutinies, (prayers for the elect who are to be baptised a few weeks later.) From the book Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults: “… then, if required, the profession of faith is said. But for pastoral reasons these general intercessions and the profession of faith may be omitted.” (RCIA, n. 143, 157, 164 edition for Australia and England, n. 156, 170, 177 in the editon for the USA.).
The usual time for the Scrutinies is the Third, Fourth and Fifth Sundays of Lent. But it can be done at other times during the year, except Solemnities. (USA RCIA, n. 146, Australia RCIA n. 133).
At the Easter Vigil there is a renewal of baptismal promises, instead of the Creed.
The Creed is not said if there is a baptism in the Mass. (Rite of Baptism for Children, n. 29, The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 374).
And if there is a confirmation at Mass, from the Rite of Confirmation (Rite of Confirmation, n. 31. The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 492).
Nor if there is an ordination of a deacon, priest or bishop in the Mass, from the rite of “Ordination of Deacons, Priests and Bishops” (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, pages 28, 39, 66).
Nor if there is a consecration to a life of virginity in the Mass: (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, page 161, 177).
Nor if there is a rite of religious profession in the Mass,
for a temporary profession by a man: (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, page 213).
the same for a perpetual profession by a man, n. 52(b), page 221.
same if a man renews his vows, n. 83(b), page 233.
same for a women, temporary profession, 25(b), page 252.
same for a women, perpetual profession, 57(b), page 258.
same for a women, renewal of vows, 90(b), page 272.
Nor if there is a blessing of an abbot (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, page 304.)
Same for the blessing of an abbess, (n. 10, page 314.)
“68. The Creed is to be sung or said by the priest together with the people on Sundays and Solemnities. It may be said also at particular celebrations of a more solemn character.”
The 2002 Roman Missal’s Order of Mass, n. 19, allows either the Nicene or Apostles Creed at any Mass. (Missale Romanum, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2002, ISBN: 8820972719, page 513).
The Creed is optional when there are the Scrutinies, (prayers for the elect who are to be baptised a few weeks later.) From the book Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults: “… then, if required, the profession of faith is said. But for pastoral reasons these general intercessions and the profession of faith may be omitted.” (RCIA, n. 143, 157, 164 edition for Australia and England, n. 156, 170, 177 in the editon for the USA.).
The usual time for the Scrutinies is the Third, Fourth and Fifth Sundays of Lent. But it can be done at other times during the year, except Solemnities. (USA RCIA, n. 146, Australia RCIA n. 133).
At the Easter Vigil there is a renewal of baptismal promises, instead of the Creed.
The Creed is not said if there is a baptism in the Mass. (Rite of Baptism for Children, n. 29, The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 374).
And if there is a confirmation at Mass, from the Rite of Confirmation (Rite of Confirmation, n. 31. The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 492).
Nor if there is an ordination of a deacon, priest or bishop in the Mass, from the rite of “Ordination of Deacons, Priests and Bishops” (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, pages 28, 39, 66).
Nor if there is a consecration to a life of virginity in the Mass: (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, page 161, 177).
Nor if there is a rite of religious profession in the Mass,
for a temporary profession by a man: (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, page 213).
the same for a perpetual profession by a man, n. 52(b), page 221.
same if a man renews his vows, n. 83(b), page 233.
same for a women, temporary profession, 25(b), page 252.
same for a women, perpetual profession, 57(b), page 258.
same for a women, renewal of vows, 90(b), page 272.
Nor if there is a blessing of an abbot (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, page 304.)
Same for the blessing of an abbess, (n. 10, page 314.)
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myrrh
Guest
Thank all of you for your thorough responses.
Prayers are in order for this priest then.
Prayers are in order for this priest then.
T
thistle
Guest
The GIRM requires only that the Creed be said. It does not specify which one to be used.I was under the impression that use of the Apostles Creed was only permitted at Easter Time. Obviously that rule has been changed for where I am they flick about from one to the other according to the wishes of whoever is celebrating Mass.
Here in the Philippines we only use the Apostles Creed. I have never heard the Nicene Creed said in this country.
C
ConstantineTG
Guest
Back in the day, Mary the Queen in GreenHills used the Nicene Creed. Not sure if they do until today.The GIRM requires only that the Creed be said. It does not specify which one to be used.
Here in the Philippines we only use the Apostles Creed. I have never heard the Nicene Creed said in this country.
T
thistle
Guest
Don’t know either.Back in the day, Mary the Queen in GreenHills used the Nicene Creed. Not sure if they do until today.
H
Hesychios
Guest
This question is interesting in light of the fact that the Roman Catholic church did not recite a creed of any sort in the Mass for hundreds of years in the past. It was not introduced into the Mass at Rome until after the year 1000!
Clearly then, a Mass without a recitation of the Creed is still valid. To say otherwise would invalidate 1000 years of Masses in Rome itself (and probably longer in other places) from Saint Peter and Saint Paul’s time.
Priests are very well prepared for their responsibilities, and would probably know the mind of their bishops. I don’t think it is necessary to question their competence in these matters. Not worth worrying about.
Clearly then, a Mass without a recitation of the Creed is still valid. To say otherwise would invalidate 1000 years of Masses in Rome itself (and probably longer in other places) from Saint Peter and Saint Paul’s time.
Priests are very well prepared for their responsibilities, and would probably know the mind of their bishops. I don’t think it is necessary to question their competence in these matters. Not worth worrying about.
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MissRose73
Guest
The church I’ve been going to has used both forms of the Creed, and we have it projected on a big screen. We don’t say it when we have baptisms as we renew our baptismal promises instead.
S
superamazingman
Guest
Yes it is, with a few exceptions.If yes, how serious is it to be omitted.
S
superamazingman
Guest
It is worth worrying about. Priests are not perfect, nor are bishops. At times, they (both priests and bishops) can be downright disobedient.Priests are very well prepared for their responsibilities, and would probably know the mind of their bishops. I don’t think it is necessary to question their competence in these matters. Not worth worrying about.
In any case, it is not the mind of the bishop that matters. What matters this their obedience to the rubrics that matters, and the rubrics of the Mass state that the creed is to be said at every Sunday Mass, with only a small number of exceptions.
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Evan
Guest
Base on post #7, I’d say with a bunch of exceptions.Yes it is, with a few exceptions.
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bilop
Guest
You don’t need to go nearly that far; Daily Mass does not include the Creed, and is certainly valid.This question is interesting in light of the fact that the Roman Catholic church did not recite a creed of any sort in the Mass for hundreds of years in the past. It was not introduced into the Mass at Rome until after the year 1000!
Clearly then, a Mass without a recitation of the Creed is still valid. To say otherwise would invalidate 1000 years of Masses in Rome itself (and probably longer in other places) from Saint Peter and Saint Paul’s time.
Priests are very well prepared for their responsibilities, and would probably know the mind of their bishops. I don’t think it is necessary to question their competence in these matters. Not worth worrying about.
God Bless
A Sunday Mass is supposed to have some sort of profession of faith —at some point. The usual form that this takes is the recitation of the Apostle’s Creed or the Nicene Creed.If yes, how serious is it to be omitted.
At certain times of the year or during certain events at Mass this profession of faith will take place in a question and answer form: for example, the renewal of baptismal promises. It makes sense to omit the creed on such days because the creed would be rather redundant.
Yes, it is a serious matter if the creed is omitted when the rubrics do not allow for it to be omitted. But it’s not anywhere near serious enough to cause a Mass to be invalid. Unless this was part of a *pattern *of strange goings-on during Mass I would not go out of my way to ask the priest about it. (I might if the opportunity just happened to present itself.)
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MissRose73
Guest
I would say either Apostles or Nicene is to be said at each Sunday Mass (or Saturday evening). Only exception would be if baptismal promises were renewed due to Baptisms and/or Confirmations taking place where the congregation is also asked to renewal baptismal promises. Only times I’ve noticed the Creed is not said is at most Daily Masses unless its a Holy Day or a Solemnity of some kind.
Y
YoungTradCath
Guest
This is basically how it works.I would say either Apostles or Nicene is to be said at each Sunday Mass (or Saturday evening). Only exception would be if baptismal promises were renewed due to Baptisms and/or Confirmations taking place where the congregation is also asked to renewal baptismal promises. Only times I’ve noticed the Creed is not said is at most Daily Masses unless its a Holy Day or a Solemnity of some kind.
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