Is the Bible Alone not enough?

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faffy

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Hi All!
I had initially posted this to the Water Cooler Forum and have just discovered that I shouldn’t have done so.I’m a new member.My Apologies!

I am a Catholic from Zimbabwe in Southern Africa.I am very confused as i write this because i am at a crossroads with
regards the issue of my Faith.I bumped into your website when i was trying to look for answers to the many questions that are raised by non-catholics about our Faith.Here in Zimbabwe, the Church is constantly being attacked but i’ve realised that we have little backing from the bible proper to support what we believe in and what we practice.I have asked other catholic friends but they tell me to refer to Catholic writings by Catholic authors, the Catechism etc but I want to be able to refer to the bible proper which is the Word of God shared by every christian, Protestants seem to be very good at attacking our beliefs and practices using the Bible but I have found that as a Catholic I can not defend my Faith using the Bible alone but I feel I should be able to do that.Issues like Purgatory,Reciting the Rosary( i appreciate that we refer to incidences in the Bible for the mysteries, but I want to be able to say here its saying we should recite the Rosary)even the fact that we should ask Mary to intercede for us. ,Baptism of Infants,Having statues of Saints in the Church building, bowing to the crucifix during Easter.I have just mentioned a few for fear of having to write an essay.
I have friends who are Seventh Day Adventists and they usually have questions for me regarding Catholicism of which they would already have answers from the Bible to discredit some of our Practices.I sometimes feel that i should just ignore them but I also have this strong conviction that I should be able to defend my Faith using the same source they are using to discredit it.

Is the Bible alone not enough to answer the questions raised by
non-catholics about Catholicism?

Good bless!!
FAFFY
 
but i’ve realised that we have little backing from the bible proper to support what we believe in and what we practice
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That is simply not true. The bible backs up everything that the Church teaches. The bible points toward, upholds, and explains all that the Church teaches.

I’m around Evangelical Protestants on a somewhat regular basis at work, school (I’ve recently had to go back to school and the program that I’m in is offered only at a Evangelical College founded by the Missionary Church) and my wife’s family. At first, many of them took out their bibles and tried to tell me how wrong Catholicism was. They were surprised when I pulled out my pocket New Testament (Catholics aren’t supposed to carry around a bible!!), and was easily able to refute their claims using the bible!! It is more than possible… in fact, it’s easy once you know the bible.

Fundamentalist Evangelical Protestants have, mostly unwittingly, taken a Catholic book and twisted its meaning. They do the same with most other Catholic books. I’ve seen them twist the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Church Fathers, and many other contemporary works by selectively quoting, using passages out of context, and applying their own preconceived notions to form interpretations that are far from the original meaning of the author. If they do this with books by Keating, Olsen, etc., should we be surprised that they do the same with the bible?

Lets look at the examples that you give.

Purgatory is a place of purification. That purification or holiness is necessary is clear from the Scriptures:

Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

1 Jn 3:1-3 See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every one who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

Rom 8:17 …and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

Eph 4:22-23 Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds.

It is also equally clear from Scripture that to enter into heaven, one needs to be purified:

Rev 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it.

Heb 12:14 Strive… for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

What happens if someone dies in someway unclean? Are people who die in a state of perfect holiness and purity the only people who are going to make it to heaven?

Apparently not:

1 Jn 5:16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal.

Purgatory, however, makes sense once you demonstrate to you Evangelical Protestant friends that justification is a real transformation of the person into a “son of God,” not just “snow covered dung.” This can easily be shown to Protestants using the bible as well, and I might go ahead and post this later.

Purgatory then is a place where we are purified for heaven, because nothing unclean can enter heaven.
 
Reciting the Rosary.

Psalms 77:3-6, 12

I think of God, and I moan;
I meditate, and my spirit faints. [Selah]
Thou dost hold my eyelids from closing;
I am so troubled that I cannot speak.
I consider the days of old,
I remember the years long ago.
I commune with my heart in the night;
I meditate and search my spirit…

I will meditate on all thy work,
and muse on thy mighty deeds.

Certainly my Evangelical friends can not deny that mediating upon the mysteries of the Gospel is contrary to the bible.

But what about repetitious prayer? Doesn’t Jesus say not to drone on with needless words?

No, actually he was talking about the insincere prayer of the pagans who hedged their bets by praying to as many different gods as they could think of. There is sincere repetitious prayer in the bible that my Evangelical friends skimmed over in their reading.

Rev 4:8 And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!” If you don’t like sincere repetitious prayer, you aren’t going to like heaven very much!

How many times did Jesus pray the exact same words to the Father while he was in the garden (Matt 26:39-44)? If you don’t like people who pray sincere repetitious prayer, then you apparently wouldn’t like Jesus. And you wouldn’t like Saint Paul and his companions much, either: 1 Thess 3:10 …praying earnestly night and day that we may see you face to face… And you wouldn’t like the Israelites much either. Here is one of their prayers:

Psalm 136: O give thanks to the LORD, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures for ever.
O give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures for ever.
O give thanks to the Lord of lords, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
to him who alone does great wonders, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
to him who by understanding made the heavens, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
to him who made the great lights, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
the sun to rule over the day, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
the moon and stars to rule over the night, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
to him who smote the first-born of Egypt, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
and brought Israel out from among them, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
with a strong hand and an outstretched arm, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
to him who divided the Red Sea in sunder, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
and made Israel pass through the midst of it, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
but overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
to him who led his people through the wilderness, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
to him who smote great kings, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
and slew famous kings, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
Sihon, king of the Amorites, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
and Og, king of Bashan, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
and gave their land as a heritage, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
a heritage to Israel his servant, for his steadfast love endures for ever.
It is he who remembered us in our low estate, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
and rescued us from our foes, for his steadfast love endures for ever;
he who gives food to all flesh, for his steadfast love endures for ever.
O give thanks to the God of heaven, for his steadfast love endures for ever

I know I haven’t touched on the other issues, but I actually have to work today! The point is, is that the bible is the Catholic Church’s book, and once we know that book, it becomes obvious that it is a Catholic book. The problem is… Catholics don’t know the bible as well as they should, but the Evangelicals know it well (at least the text, not necessarily what the text means).
 
correct, the Bible is not enough… a great start, but not nearly enough… 👍
 
I’m currently in RCIA and I found This Page from Catholic Answers a great help. It uses Bible scripture to back up the arguments against the most common anti-Catholic lies.

And yes I believe knowing the Bible better first hand would be a great help as well. I’m still learning, but it’s getting easier.
 
Hello Faffy!

Welcome to this forum. It has been very helpful for me, and I hope it will be helpful for you. I am praying for you.

The Bible tells us that the Bible is not enough. See the 2nd letter to the Thessalonians, especially chapter 2 verse 15.

The letter to the Romans tells us to submit to authority (chapter 13) and to stick together (chapter 16).

I found a good book for these sort of questions: The Scriptural Roots of Catholic Teaching by Chantal Epie. She is a lay person, and it is written for lay people (good for me - easy to understand).

I hope this helps. It is wonderful that you are witnessing to your brothers & sisters on the Catholic faith!

Peace
 
faffy:
the Church is constantly being attacked but i’ve realised that we have little backing from the bible proper to support what we believe in and what we practice.
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You need to visit:
scripturecatholic.com/

That should keep you busy for a while.

Peace in Christ…Salmon
 
Faffy,

You are incorrect in saying, “we have little backing from the bible proper to support what we believe in and what we practice.” However, it does take some study to see how doctrine develops: the Trinity, for example, is not mentioned explicitly in the Bible, but yet this is foundational. Just as the concept of the Trinity developed, so too other doctrines developed. The Church is never in conflict with Scripture.

I would take a different tack than the one you are on: I would ask your non-Catholic friends to explain where in the Bible it says that everything must be in the Bible. They will usually then point to 2 Timothy 3:16, but “profitable” does not imply “only”. Also, as Newman points out, if taken that literally then we are to conclude that only the Old Testament was necessary, as those are the Scriptures that Paul is referring to.

Studying the Catechism and other Catholic writers will help you and will save you much time—I think you should use the resources that are available to Catholics in your position.
 
faffy,
There is an American apologist who lives in an area of our country that is populated by many Evangelicals and Fundamentralists.
He developed a “Bible only” Catholic response to the kinds of questions you are getting.
His name is John Martignoni ands his web site is:

www.biblechristiansociety.com

Yes, it’s a long name, but many of his tapes are free and all are very helpful.
One thing he always stresses is that the Bible is a Catholic book; we determined the canon and we wrote the New Testament, therefore, NOTHING in the Bible can conflict with Catholic Dogma or doctrine and Catholic Dogma or doctrine cannot conflict with the Bible.
I know some non-Catholics make some very convincing arguments from Scripture, but they’re either taking quotes out of context or misinterpreting them.
Visit the website above and good luck to you. It takes a little study, but in the process, you get to learn more about your faith.
 
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faffy:
I am a Catholic from Zimbabwe in Southern Africa.I am very confused as i write this because i am at a crossroads with
regards the issue of my Faith.I bumped into your website when i was trying to look for answers to the many questions that are raised by non-catholics about our Faith.Here in Zimbabwe, the Church is constantly being attacked but i’ve realised that we have little backing from the bible proper to support what we believe in and what we practice.I have asked other catholic friends but they tell me to refer to Catholic writings by Catholic authors, the Catechism etc but I want to be able to refer to the bible proper which is the Word of God shared by every christian, Protestants seem to be very good at attacking our beliefs and practices using the Bible but I have found that as a Catholic I can not defend my Faith using the Bible alone but I feel I should be able to do that.Issues like Purgatory,Reciting the Rosary( i appreciate that we refer to incidences in the Bible for the mysteries, but I want to be able to say here its saying we should recite the Rosary)even the fact that we should ask Mary to intercede for us. ,Baptism of Infants,Having statues of Saints in the Church building, bowing to the crucifix during Easter.I have just mentioned a few for fear of having to write an essay.
I have friends who are Seventh Day Adventists and they usually have questions for me regarding Catholicism of which they would already have answers from the Bible to discredit some of our Practices.I sometimes feel that i should just ignore them but I also have this strong conviction that I should be able to defend my Faith using the same source they are using to discredit it.

Is the Bible alone not enough to answer the questions raised by
non-catholics about Catholicism?

Good bless!!
FAFFY
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And I am a Catholic from Namibia in Southern Africa (in fact your neighbour) and here the CC is constantly being attacked too, but i’ve realised that we have enough backing from the Bible to support what we believe. You will find answers to all your questions, that much I can assure you. In the meantime try this:

www.stillcatholic.com
www.catholicsites.com/beggarking
www.biblicalcatholic.com
www.mindspring.com/~jdarcy/files/cheatsheet.html

And on those who attack the Church you will find helpful information on them here:

SDA - www.ellenwhite.org
Baptists - www.members.aol.com/uticacw/baptist/bibletruth.html
JW’s - www.watchtowernews.org/howto/index.htm

plakamhil
 
The bible does not explain itsef ther are no footnotes appendix or a glossary of terms used.The language used is also confusing.Sometimes we are told things which are condiional but are never told the conditions under which they happen eg. we are told “Whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but shall have everlasting life”.But as you know it is not enough tjust to believe in Him without living your faith.And in any case even none-belivers will have everlasting life, all be it in Hell!
In additgion to this many of our practices are written on our hearts and traditions of the church.Some come from new revelations received after the bible had been written,the rosary and numerous devotions for instance.
 
Faffy: You’ve come to the right place! Be sure to check back in whenever you get a question you have trouble with. God bless!
 
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faffy:
Hi All!
I had initially posted this to the Water Cooler Forum and have just discovered that I shouldn’t have done so.I’m a new member.My Apologies!

I am a Catholic from Zimbabwe in Southern Africa.I am very confused as i write this because i am at a crossroads with
regards the issue of my Faith.I bumped into your website when i was trying to look for answers to the many questions that are raised by non-catholics about our Faith.Here in Zimbabwe, the Church is constantly being attacked but i’ve realised that we have little backing from the bible proper to support what we believe in and what we practice.I have asked other catholic friends but they tell me to refer to Catholic writings by Catholic authors, the Catechism etc but I want to be able to refer to the bible proper which is the Word of God shared by every christian, Protestants seem to be very good at attacking our beliefs and practices using the Bible but I have found that as a Catholic I can not defend my Faith using the Bible alone but I feel I should be able to do that.Issues like Purgatory,Reciting the Rosary( i appreciate that we refer to incidences in the Bible for the mysteries, but I want to be able to say here its saying we should recite the Rosary)even the fact that we should ask Mary to intercede for us. ,Baptism of Infants,Having statues of Saints in the Church building, bowing to the crucifix during Easter.I have just mentioned a few for fear of having to write an essay.
I have friends who are Seventh Day Adventists and they usually have questions for me regarding Catholicism of which they would already have answers from the Bible to discredit some of our Practices.I sometimes feel that i should just ignore them but I also have this strong conviction that I should be able to defend my Faith using the same source they are using to discredit it.

Is the Bible alone not enough to answer the questions raised by
non-catholics about Catholicism?

Good bless!!
FAFFY
Click to expand...
Is the Bible alone not sufficient? Well yes and no. The Scriptures that St. Paul and others refer to is only the Old Testament. So in a sense reflecting on the “Road to Emmaus” all those things in the OT should have been enough to show the Jews that Jesus was the Christ, the one they waited for. But for some they still didn’t understand. Add the New Testament and we have what would become the Bible, the written word of God. That should be sufficient to show people that Jesus is the Savior and that one should be Christian. But it’s not for some. They also require a living, teaching authority that was established by Christ to interpret the Scriptures. As was the case with Philip and the eunuch. How can one understand unless someone explains! Divine Revelation is Jesus, God presents this to mankind in written form and as a clear teaching authority in his Church. Nothing taught by the Catholic Church has ever or will ever be against anything found in the Christian Scriptures, The Bible.
 
I didn’t see anyone recommend Dave Armstrong’s book so I apologize if this is a repeat. Armstrong’s A Biblical Defense of Catholicism is a good resource. You can purchase it electronically at the link below.

ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ391.HTM
 
the doctrine of sola scriptura is not found in scripture. in fact, the bible tell us that we need more than just the bible alone. the bible confirms that not everything jesus said and did is recorded in scripture( john21:25)and that we must also hold fast to oral tradition, the preached word of god(1 cor11:2;1pet1:25). bless you all.🙂
 
Dear Faffy,

To be clear.

All that is Catholic is biblically sound. They are based from the Bible.
If you will get your Catholic Cathecism then you will find how this is very much true.

History will prove that it is the Catholic church that is the one Church founded by Christ. Ask your non-catholic friends if they can trace their church history back to Christ. You will find that they will trace up to 500 years back and then jump to Christ in the bible, no longer tracing if there’s a connection between the past and the present.

Since from the Bible there was only one Church founded and this Church will never stray nor be destroyed by evil (Matthew 16:17-19) then the Catholic Church must be the true Church that teaches what Christ teaches.

From that realization will come other realizations and a deeper understanding of our Faith.
 
I have found the following book to be especially helpful in defending the faith. It lists several scripture references and explains them!! Very informative and easy to use.

Catholic Doctrine in Scripture - A Guide to the Verses that are Key to Affirming the Faith. by, Gregory Oatis

ISBN: 0970262140
It’'s about $10 USA
 
faffy,

The “Bible alone” method they claim to use is nothing more than a sales pitch, a slogan. It is not an actual practice, in my opinion.

For example, a Seventh-Day Adventist family member gave me a KJV of the Bible. Consider what the preface of this Bible has to say about extra-biblical “study helps” that are recommended to better understand Scripture:
The reader will want to keep in mind as well. In no instance, however, has the emerging light from these extra-Biblical sources ever done violence to or disturbed the central message of the eternal Word of God. These helps only serve to illuminate and make the brilliant gems of truth even brighter. (*The Open Bible, *preface, Authorized King James Version, Thomas Nelson, Publishers, 1975).
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I find this admission rather revealing. Catholics have always contended that the “extra-Biblical study helps” of Catholic Tradition has “in no instance … ever done violence or disturbed the central message of the eternal Word of God.” But instead, CatholicTraditon “only serves to illuminate and make the brilliant gems of truth even brighter.”

It seems that when Protestants use “study helps” from “extra-Biblical sources” they “only serve to illuminate and make the brilliant gems of truth even brighter.” Yet, when I say the same thing of the “extra-Biblical source” of Catholic tradition, my Protestants friends charge me with following “traditions of men” instead of the “Bible alone.” I don’t find such a rebuttal at all convincing, however, as I see the hypocrisy behind their charge.

The fact is, they don’t actually use the “Bible alone” but also use the novel “traditions” or the “extra-Biblical” “study helps” that they choose to believe (e.g. Ellen White’s so-called “prophecies”), whereas I use the ancient traditon or “extra-Biblical helps” that I believe more convincingly describes the intent of Sacred Scripture.
 
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