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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Am I the only one that sees this phrase as pompous arrogant and very un Christlike.
Is the concept of "Personal Relationship with Jesus" too individualistic?
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mgrfin
Guest
Brother Martin,
It always amazes me. Attacks on Catholicism happen on this site all the time. Small, nuanced ones, to the obvious. We are called all manner of things. There are some 3,000 different Protestant (if we can use that term) denominations, so it is easy to upset any one member of all of them.
“Separated brother”. What part of ‘separated brother’ bothers you. ‘Separated’? “Brother”? What do you want to be called. It’s hard for us to keep up with all your appellations. You are different from us, and you are not with us.
Pompous? Arrogant? unChristlike? I think all of that is just to stick us a little bit more.
peace
mgrfin
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Contarini
Guest
It is perhaps a little stuffy, but that may not be a bad thing. I see nothing arrogant or un-Christlike about it. In fact, I think the sensitive, politically correct reaction of Protestants to any hint that they might be in a faulty position with regard to the true Church is itself very arrogant and un-Christlike.
Edwin
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Contarini
Guest
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mgrfin
Guest
We don’t want to give any hint to Protestants that they might be in a faulty position with regard to the true Church.
peace,
mgrfin
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mgrfin
Guest
I and a billion other Catholics were the objects of the barb, “Roman Communion”. How can you feel offended - it was directed by you.LOL! Now you know how I felt when you objected to “Roman Communion”!
Edwin
peace
mgrfin
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I’m no theologian, and maybe I’m just a hard fellow. But I have to have motivation in all things. Frankly, if I did not feel the personal call of Jesus, and feel the warmth and love He has for me, and know what He wants me to do, and want to do it for Him, I wouldn’t give a flip about my neighbor 99.9 percent of the time.
I guess I’m not very modern, and maybe I’m not very nice, but I don’t see a thing wrong with having a personal relationship with Jesus. Some of us out here would be even worse people than we are without Him. Lots and lots of times I see the opportunity to take advantage of others. But then I think, “No, Jesus wants me to see Him in that person, and to treat that person as I would Him. That’s the one thing I can do for Him, because He cares about that person even if I don’t”. And notwithstanding that I truly don’t care a thing about the other person many, many times, I at least try to act in accordance with what that “personal relationship with Jesus” directs. I have a lot of faults, but I do know myself pretty well. Without Jesus, I sure would be a hard case. I sure would. I don’t speak for everybody, and I know I don’t. But I know for a fact that a lot of people out there aren’t a bit better than I am, and need that “personal relationship with Jesus” like a bee needs honey.
I guess I’m not very modern, and maybe I’m not very nice, but I don’t see a thing wrong with having a personal relationship with Jesus. Some of us out here would be even worse people than we are without Him. Lots and lots of times I see the opportunity to take advantage of others. But then I think, “No, Jesus wants me to see Him in that person, and to treat that person as I would Him. That’s the one thing I can do for Him, because He cares about that person even if I don’t”. And notwithstanding that I truly don’t care a thing about the other person many, many times, I at least try to act in accordance with what that “personal relationship with Jesus” directs. I have a lot of faults, but I do know myself pretty well. Without Jesus, I sure would be a hard case. I sure would. I don’t speak for everybody, and I know I don’t. But I know for a fact that a lot of people out there aren’t a bit better than I am, and need that “personal relationship with Jesus” like a bee needs honey.
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mgrfin
Guest
Sounds like fulfilling the commands of Jesus:
Love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, thy mind, thy whole soul;
Love thy neighbor as thyself.
God bless you.
mgrfin
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Well, you aren’t in full communion with the Catholic Church nor Ed. You are my brother in Christ.
I don’t think separated brother and sister in Christ is unChristian nor uncharitable. If you feel offended, I apologize.
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Nella
Guest
You totally missed what i was saying here. I meant at the time of your death. Of course you are not alone in Heaven. You seem to jump to conclusions quite quickly.
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Contarini
Guest
But no one else was talking about the time of your death. Why did you think it was relevant?
I’m not sure in what sense it’s true that a believer is alone at the time of their death, anyway.
Edwin
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Yerusalyim
Guest
My understanding of the history of the theological concept of a “personal relationship” with Jesus is that it’s rooted in the later protestant movement and solidly rooted in the American Protesant movement from which the American sense of individualism itself is born.
My thoughts…sure…me and Jesus have a relationship…but not to the exclusion of others…scripture doesn’t ever mention a “PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP” with Jesus…in fact a look at Judaism and early Christianity in the Scriptures shows that it’s a COMMUNAL RELATIONSHIP…yes…you are your brother’s keeper in a sense.
My thoughts…sure…me and Jesus have a relationship…but not to the exclusion of others…scripture doesn’t ever mention a “PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP” with Jesus…in fact a look at Judaism and early Christianity in the Scriptures shows that it’s a COMMUNAL RELATIONSHIP…yes…you are your brother’s keeper in a sense.
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nonsumd
Guest
Sounds good to me!
I especially like the idea (though I struggle to follow it) that a personal relationship with God should lead us to love our neighbor as God loves our neighbor – we become a channel of God’s love and not of our own emotions.
This has been Christian and Catholic teaching from the very beginning, long before the expression “personal relationship with God” emerged. You clearly do not focus exclusively on God or on God and yourself – you seek to see your neighbor as God sees your neighbor and doing so as part of your having “a personal relationship” with God.
I wish everyone who bandied that phrase around explicitly elaborated upon it as you do. I, however, usually hear it as some sort of way, indirect or not so indirect, to criticize those who belong to traditional churches. There are preachers who talk about a personal relationship to God in enormous stadiums, which for me makes it look like the “personal relationship with God” being called for is not that different from a spectator’s relationship with a rock star or a star quarterback (or is that the relationship with the celebrity preacher?
).As Yerusalayim wrote, Jews and the early Christians viewed their relationship to God as a communal one. That does not mean that believers did not have a personal, individual relationship with God, but recognizing a communal relationship with God did and does help people keep from becoming too individualistic, or at any rate too self-absorbed. It is no accident that many of the great mystics, people with a most intimate relationship with God, were monks and nuns who lived in community.
In such reforms as those of the Lateran Council, the late medieval Church sought to reevangelize Christians, to get them to develop a more “personal relationship” with God – if the pre-Reformation church did not have this as its aim, it would never have accepted, it would never have generated, movements like that of Saint Francis.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
I may be seperated from your “church” my BROTHER, but I am in NO way seperated in Christ, nor HE in me!
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jabelltulsa
Guest
But, there is ONLY one Church. That is what Catholics believe.
Furthermore, we all can be separated from Christ by our own actions. I myself have separated myself at many points in my life. Thank God for the Sacrament of Reconciliation!
If I have a great sin, I become dead to Christ. If I reject God’s Grace, I become separated as well. He gives me the free will to do so.
It is only through worship (making Sacrifices unto), receiving His grace (from His free giving, and from His Sacraments), and, of course, the initial Sacrament of Baptism that I can be rejoined to Christ.
The Catholic Church teaches that without these things, we are separated from Christ.
How do you know that you are joined to Christ? I ask this anxiously awaiting an answer in the spirit of Charity.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Very simple! When I stopped thinking I believed in Him and actually opened my heart to Him, He changed me. I am born anew in Him for His glory. And here my friend is the tell tale proof…Satan can dulicate emotions but he can’t duplicate the “FRUIT”. One only need to ask those around me if the fruits in my life are abundant, and if they proclaim the glory of God back to Himself…Praise the LORD! whom is and always will be LORD of my life in all that I do, for it is for His glory.
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jabelltulsa
Guest
What you are speaking of is what Baptism is. Are you speaking of water baptism? However, the Sacrament (external sign of inward grace) needs the external Part as well, because it was prescribed by Christ to be done this way.
I don’t believe you can Baptize yourself at will. You need a priest or in an emergency, a lay person. This has been the practice since the time of Christ. Do you think being born again is the same as water Baptism? If so, then we agree this is the initiation of our relationship to Christ - following His command out of obedience just as all others in His Church have done (as a society in Christ rather than individually).
And here my friend is the tell tale proof…Satan can dulicate emotions but he can’t duplicate the "FRUIT"
You too, are my friend and my brother in Christ.
I must say, however, in relation to satan and our personal relationships with Christ, can’t listening to him (satan) and following his influence separate us from Christ? If we agree, then I will tell you that the Catholic Church calls this mortal sin.
myfavoritmartin;2610957:
whom is and always will be LORD of my life in all that I do, for it is for His glory.
Amen, to those things in bold
I am very happy for you and the Blessings in your life.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Absolutely not! my wife was a born again regenerate Christian long before she was ever “water baptised”. Meaning the indwelling of the HS was very apparent in her, and most everything she did bore out this truth, again evidence in the** “FRUIT”. **All for HIS glory.
Peace and blessings my friend!
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Teeliumtrozzle
Guest
I’m Catholic and I say we should definitely have a personal relationship with Jesus.Look at St. Therese of Liseaux, St. Rita,and lots of other saints!Besides, Jesus loves all of us and we are all His brothers and sisters.
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Singinbeauty
Guest
I was thinking about this today while I was supposed to be working… LOL… 
I’d like to point out a few verses from the bible…
Psalm 71:5:
I’d like to point out a few verses from the bible…
Psalm 71:5:
Psalm 139:13:
Psalm 139:15:
We have had a personal relationship with God since the very beginning. How could we not work to learn more about Him and His Son?
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