Is the Holy Spirit created in Mormonism?

[thephilosopher6]

Mormonism is pretty explicit about the origin of the god Jehovah, who they believe to be Jesus Christ, but I’ve never seen any explanation as to the origin of the Holy Spirit in Mormonism. Is he created by the god Elohim? Or is he an eternal god himself? Or is his origin in Mormonism unknown?

 

[Marie5890]

If you understand Mormons theology, the answer is no.

Mormons believe that God is an exalted man, as are his wife/wives. And that each human being has the opportunity to also become an exalted being and there for become a god/goddess.

The Christian God is entirely different. His alone is God and always has been God, and always will be God and is not an exalted man. The Triune God.

Understanding that the theologies of the nature of God don’t even come close, the answer has to be, no

 

[thephilosopher6]

If you understand Mormons theology, the answer is no.

Mormons believe that God is an exalted man, as are his wife/wives. And that each human being has the opportunity to also become an exalted being and there for become a god/goddess.

The Christian God is entirely different. His alone is God and always has been God, and always will be God and is not an exalted man. The Triune God.

Understanding that the theologies of the nature of God don’t even come close, the answer has to be, no

I edited it to change the question slightly. Oh well, lol. I think what I edited in is more interesting. But thank you for answering.

 

[Marie5890]

In Mormon theology, the Holy Ghost is another son of Elohim, just as Jehovah (Christ) or any of us are. At some point in time, the Holy Ghost will also be born and gain a body, get baptized, take out his endowments and be sealed to a woman, so that he may become exalted.

Im trying to remember back: The Archangel Gabriel is Noah, The Archangel Michael is Adam.

Here is a link to the Encyclopedia of Mormon from BYU website

eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that the Holy Ghost is a spirit man, a spirit son of God the Father. It is fundamental Church doctrine that God is the Father of the spirits of all men and women, that Jesus is literally God’s Son both in the spirit and in the flesh, and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit separate and distinct from both the Father and the Son.

 

[gazelam]

Mormonism is pretty explicit about the origin of the god Jehovah, who they believe to be Jesus Christ, but I’ve never seen any explanation as to the origin of the Holy Spirit in Mormonism. Is he created by the god Elohim? Or is he an eternal god himself? Or is his origin in Mormonism unknown?

The Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry on the Holy Ghost can be found here: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost

It’s important to remember the in LDS theology there isn’t anything that’s created from nothing. The elements are eternal and man was in the beginning with God. LDS refer to the Earth as a creation of God, but a creation in the sense that God organized the Earth out of unorganized matter.

I hope this helps…

 

[thephilosopher6]

The Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry on the Holy Ghost can be found here: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost

It’s important to remember the in LDS theology there isn’t anything that’s created from nothing. The elements are eternal and man was in the beginning with God. LDS refer to the Earth as a creation of God, but a creation in the sense that God organized the Earth out of unorganized matter.

I hope this helps…

Yes, I understand the Mormon heresy in that regard. Thank you.

 

[Chris-WA]

The Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry on the Holy Ghost can be found here: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost

It’s important to remember the in LDS theology there isn’t anything that’s created from nothing. The elements are eternal and man was in the beginning with God. LDS refer to the Earth as a creation of God, but a creation in the sense that God organized the Earth out of unorganized matter.

I hope this helps…

I remember two LDS men trying to explain this doctrine of Mormonism to me. I couldn’t believe that they actually could teach this with a straight face, it sounded so obviously ridiculous and bizarre. LDS clearly haven’t thought this through very well. Their doctrines are a mile wide and an inch deep. Dig down 1.1 inches and it all falls apart. Unfortunately, most LDS never bother to dig that far. But the good news is that more and more are starting to look:

cesletter.com/Letter-to-a-CES-Director.pdf

 

[Tarquin]

Years ago, I read a book or speech by someone. I do not recall if he were a prophet, apostle, or other leader. He claimed that the Holy Ghost was a child of God who had not yet received his mortal body. The Holy Ghost is the Testator. He would, like all others, obtain a physical body, otherwise he could not “progress.” In this dispensation Joseph Smith bore witness in the final dispensation. Smith is the Testator. Therefore, Joseph Smith is the embodiment of the Holy Ghost. There was no discussion - at least none that was shared with me, about how the Holy Spirit was being given to people while it was stuck in Joseph’s mortal body.

That particular doctrine was not built upon, as were doctrines about endless generations of gods past, “intelligence” being the basis of humanity and divinity both. It was allowed to drop out of sight, although as with all esoteric doctrines, it continues to be believed by some who have heard about it.

So, no. The Holy Spirit, like all things, has always existed - “just not in the same form.” For an infinity of time it existed as part of the amorphous pool of “intelligence” from which God takes pieces in order to create spirits, “in the same way that our physical bodies are created.” (There are some groups who believe in the Book of Mormon and revere Joseph Smith who believe individuals are reincarnated in order to progress by being, in one incarnation, an average Joe, eventually a prophet, an Adam of a new world, a Savior, a Holy Ghost, an Elohim, and so on. But the Mormon Church most people are familiar with does not teach this publicly.)

 

[JMM1957]

The Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry on the Holy Ghost can be found here: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost

It’s important to remember the in LDS theology there isn’t anything that’s created from nothing. The elements are eternal and man was in the beginning with God. LDS refer to the Earth as a creation of God, but a creation in the sense that God organized the Earth out of unorganized matter.

I hope this helps…

How could unorganized matter have existed from all eternity? How could God the Father have existed independently of the unorganized matter which eventually was organized into creation? Why is it so difficult to ascribe the unorganized matter to the eternal God?

 

[eddie_too]

in mormonism nothing is set in stone. mormons believe that their god will tell their top prophet to change teachings if those teachings become an issue in the larger society. an example of this is allowing blacks to enter the mormon priesthood. another example is the abandonment of polygamy.

 

[CourtingTex]

I edited it to change the question slightly. Oh well, lol. I think what I edited in is more interesting. But thank you for answering.

I do not believe that at all and have never been taught such by the missionaries years ago or any official church leader and that is not official church belief from Salt Lake City so I beg to differ.

 

[CourtingTex]

Not only is it an official LDS belief, but it’s one of Mormonism’s core doctrines. The missionaries should have taught it to you.

lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god

Becoming the best I can be each day relative to the doctrine remains my focus.

I have to say that this will never be further understood here by anyone recognizing the tracts available, etc online and offline. Appreciate the official link nonetheless.

 

[CourtingTex]

I wish you well in your journey towards Godhood.

(I was raised Mormon.)

I am happy you are loyal where you are now.

The continuous assault on another religious conviction is wrong from my standpoint, nonetheless other have their liberty to do such.

 

[Athanasiy]

The only thing that is very interestingfor Mormons is organization. I wonder whether there is any research of Mormons in comparison with Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I think that even some business structures can learn from them successful propaganda activities.
In these young people always neatly dressed there is joyful optimism and there is something from “the spirit of the Insistent American.”
If this movement would be preached by some other nation , then maybe there would n’t be so big success.
They also teach English for free and are good at speaking in the local languages of the countries.
I would not call their work inspired by the holy spirit, but I have called their service a “strong organizational spirit” which is not found in other denominations (and in other nations.)

 

[gazelam]

How could unorganized matter have existed from all eternity? How could God the Father have existed independently of the unorganized matter which eventually was organized into creation? Why is it so difficult to ascribe the unorganized matter to the eternal God?

I do not know. Why not just be content with what we do know, which is that the Creation came from pre-existing material according to the Bible and be humble to know that we don’t know all of the answers?

Isaiah 55:8.9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways—oracle of the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, my thoughts higher than your thoughts.

 

[gazelam]

in mormonism nothing is set in stone. mormons believe that their god will tell their top prophet to change teachings if those teachings become an issue in the larger society. an example of this is allowing blacks to enter the mormon priesthood. another example is the abandonment of polygamy.

If to you these examples mean that nothing in Mormonism is set in stone, then you must believe the same of the RCC. Over the centuries the practice of priestly celibacy has changed, the praying of the rosary was introduced, and the college of Cardinals was added.

 

[JMM1957]

I do not know. Why not just be content with what we do know, which is that the Creation came from pre-existing material according to the Bible and be humble to know that we don’t know all of the answers?

Isaiah 55:8.9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways—oracle of the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, my thoughts higher than your thoughts.

Yes indeed, Creation as we know it did come from pre-existing formless matter, but according to the Bible, all of it came from God.

John 1:3
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Revelation 4:11
Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.

The second example above from Hebrews is about as clear as you can get. Creation came from what was invisible. Matter has mass and takes up space, even if it is not visible to the eye. Pre-existing matter would have the same characteristics. So, I say to you, why not just be content with the Biblical fact that God created all things, including pre-exising matter, it is all from God, the Creator.

The Bible came into being for our benefit, for humans. It is not for the rest of the animal kingdom or angels. When the Bible says God created all things, that is the truth that God wanted us to understand. Why would you deny that it is the whole truth?

 

[JMM1957]

If to you these examples mean that nothing in Mormonism is set in stone, then you must believe the same of the RCC. Over the centuries the practice of priestly celibacy has changed, the praying of the rosary was introduced, and the college of Cardinals was added.

Like comparing oranges to apples, big difference in what you are responding to here. Firstly, Jesus would never discriminate against skin color, ever. Second, polygamy would never be acceptable to Jesus. Both of these came from the Mormon church. How is that the same as the Catholic church and their changes?

 

[gazelam]

Yes indeed, Creation as we know it did come from pre-existing formless matter, but according to the Bible, all of it came from God.

John 1:3
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

I believe that this verse was written to declare by Whom creation occurred, not how.

Witness these other translations of this verse:

All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (English Standard Version)

All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. (Douay-Rheims)

Hubler says this (which gives cover to both sides and is admittedly getting beyond my understanding):

The punctuation of [John 1:3] becomes critical to its meaning. Proponents of creatio ex materia could easily qualify the creatures of the Word to that “which came about,” excluding matter. Proponents of creatio ex nihilo could place a period after “not one thing came about” and leave “which came about” to the next sentence. The absence of a determinate tradition of punctuation as New Testament [Greek] leaves room for both interpretations. Neither does creation by word imply ex nihilo (contra Bultmann) as we have seen in Egypt, Philo, and Midrash Rabba, and even in 2 Peter 3:5 where the word functions to organize pre-cosmic matter. (Hubler, Creatio ex Nihilo, 108)

Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

The second example above from Hebrews is about as clear as you can get. Creation came from what was invisible. Matter has mass and takes up space, even if it is not visible to the eye. Pre-existing matter would have the same characteristics.

Just because something is “not made out of things that are visible” doesn’t mean it can’t be made out of something invisible. Colossians 1:16 clearly speaks to invisible things:

For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through him and for him.

So, I say to you, why not just be content with the Biblical fact that God created all things, including pre-exising matter, it is all from God, the Creator.

I like how you’re turning my words back at me.

Revelation 4:11
Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.

I do believe that the Lord created all things. As I’ve posted elsewhere, the original meaning of “create” is to make something grow.

Stanley Jaki states:

In its basic etymological origin the word creation meant the purely natural process of growing or of making something to grow. This should be obvious by a mere recall of the [Latin] verb crescere. The crescent moon [derived from crescere] is not creating but merely growing. The expression ex nihilo or de nihilo had to be fastened, from around 200 A.D. on, by Christian theologians on the verb creare to convey unmistakably a process, strict creation, which only God can perform. Only through the long-standing use of those very Latin expressions, creare ex nihilo and creatio ex nihilo, could the English words to create and creation take on the meaning which excludes pre-existing matter. Stanley L. Jaki, Genesis 1 Through the Ages (Royal Oak, Mich.: Real View Books, 1998), 5-6.

The Bible came into being for our benefit, for humans. It is not for the rest of the animal kingdom or angels. When the Bible says God created all things, that is the truth that God wanted us to understand. Why would you deny that it is the whole truth?

I fully believe and understand that the Lord made all things grow as the original texts state. I will NOT deny that whole truth! Take care.

 

[kimg901]

If to you these examples mean that nothing in Mormonism is set in stone, then you must believe the same of the RCC. Over the centuries the practice of priestly celibacy has changed, the praying of the rosary was introduced, and the college of Cardinals was added.

I think there is a difference gaze. The 3 things you mentioned are not doctrine. Where as in your church the blacks were not allowed the priesthood because they carry the mark of Cain (according to your prophets who speak with God) but then in the midst of the Civil Rights movement your church said its now okay. I would have thought God would have been ahead of the times. Polygamy was okay too and part of your religion until Utah wanted statehood and wouldn’t be allowed unless some things changed. So tell me, was joe smith really a prophet and all others that followed him or are they wolves in sheep clothing? Leading you and all Mormons astray with false teachings and teachings that can and will be changed according to what is happening in society?