Is the Leap of Faith Inevitable?

[sy1997se]

You can know everything you want to know about Catholicism and the universe as it relates to it, you can have all the evidence there is and you can hear about as many stories of personal revelation and modern miracles as possible, but it seems to me, from my own experience, it comes to a point where absolutely nothing will be good enough for you to convince you unless you sort of, submit to Jesus in a way. Do you think God intends it in this way? Is there any way to truly believe/know in your heart without this submission in your soul to God?

 

[z_0101]

It’s called free will.

 

[Cassianus]

You can know everything you want to know about Catholicism and the universe as it relates to it, you can have all the evidence there is and you can hear about as many stories of personal revelation and modern miracles as possible, but it seems to me, from my own experience, it comes to a point where absolutely nothing will be good enough for you to convince you unless you sort of, submit to Jesus in a way. Do you think God intends it in this way? Is there any way to truly believe/know in your heart without this submission in your soul to God?

Many things in our everyday life is an act of faith. For example atoms, they may or may not exist in reality, but scientists talk about them as if they do because that’s the narrative they use to make sense of reality. People take it on faith they know what they’re talking about. We do this about many things in everyday life but because atheist materialism is the default position of the academies, religion is kind of an aversion, a dark age inheritance. Because like atoms, we can’t actually see & verify the Angels, Christ & God with a microscope.

I take it on faith that Saul, a Jew who worked for the theological faculty in Jerusalem with suppressing the heretical cult around Jesus, had good reason to surrender this position & be willing to be executed for professing Christ is risen from the Dead! The very faith he wanted to surpress. It’s very unlikely an Orthodox Jew would act in such a manner without good reason or mental illness. But it’s very unlikely so many Orthodox Jews were willing to go to their deaths for this same faith as was the case with the Holy Apostles. I take it on faith they knew what they were talking about & that’s the foundation for me for accepting Christianity.

 

[fhansen]

You can know everything you want to know about Catholicism and the universe as it relates to it, you can have all the evidence there is and you can hear about as many stories of personal revelation and modern miracles as possible, but it seems to me, from my own experience, it comes to a point where absolutely nothing will be good enough for you to convince you unless you sort of, submit to Jesus in a way. Do you think God intends it in this way? Is there any way to truly believe/know in your heart without this submission in your soul to God?

Personally I don’t think we can just decide to believe. We can be open to faith, we can desire it, but we cannot, honestly, produce it. Faith in God, however, is nonetheless right and proper for man, as is hope in and love for Him. These constitue our justice, in fact. But grace is always involved; God calls, we answer. While set up or predisposed to disbelieve due to original sin and the pride connected to it, faith, and the knowledge of and relationship with God that it entails, is nonetheless the natural order of things. Man was made for communion with God.

 

[oldcelt]

Remember people like David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc…people who expressed a belief similar to many, but were…

John

 

[fhansen]

Remember people like David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc…people who expressed a belief similar to many, but were…

John

A “faith” that doesn’t lead to authentic love for God, and neighbor, is inconsistent with Christianity. Those two were just a couple more in a long line of ego-maniacs who, in point of fact, believed totally in themselves, regardless of any professions of allegiance to some god or cause. They were full-on playing God, as all such Napoleonic types do, and coveted the worship otherwise generally thought by many to be owed Him.

 

[oldcelt]

A “faith” that doesn’t lead to authentic love for God, and neighbor, is inconsistent with Christianity. Those two were just a couple more in a long line of ego-maniacs who, in point of fact, believed totally in themselves, regardless of any professions of allegiance to some god or cause. They were full-on playing God, as all such Napoleonic types do, and coveted the worship otherwise generally thought by many to be owed Him.

However, they all made that leap…however misguided…if that is a possibility.

John

 

[JRKH]

You can know everything you want to know about Catholicism and the universe as it relates to it, you can have all the evidence there is and you can hear about as many stories of personal revelation and modern miracles as possible, but it seems to me, from my own experience, it comes to a point where absolutely nothing will be good enough for you to convince you unless you sort of, submit to Jesus in a way. Do you think God intends it in this way? Is there any way to truly believe/know in your heart without this submission in your soul to God?

The answer is no there is not.

We can believe - out of an intellectual certainty based on evidence
We can obey - out of fear
But true faith, trust must stem from love, and in true love there is submission of the soul, the heart, to another. This true in parenting - in marriage - in the spiritual journey.

This is why St Paul does not separate faith from love in 1 Cor 13. In fact he makes love the core.
This why Jesus teaches that Love - (in the two great commands) is the core and center of all of the law and the prophets.

We submit out of love, we are free in our faith because of love, we grow in holiness out of love…and who can explain Love??? Love - in itself is a “leap of faith”.

Peace
James

 

[fhansen]

However, they all made that leap…however misguided…if that is a possibility.

John

They simply did what misanthropes do: use whatever excuse they may have at hand to justify their self-righteous, abusive behavior/agendas. It’s a human problem, not directly a religious one. I’d submit they had no faith at all. If faith is at all a genuine virtue-a supernatural one IOW-then it cannot lead to Koresh or Jone’s behavior-it can only lead to greater virtues, to fulfilling the greatest commandments ultimately. But in strictly human hands there’s virtually no limit to what may be done with it, if only because our actions are restrained only by what we can get away with and what is physically possible.

 

[Della]

I cannot speak for others ideas about making leaps of faith, but for me the moment I knew I would be Catholic is when all the pieces fell into place. It was rather like Sherlock Holmes seeing how the crime was committed. I already loved God, but the faith community I was in was deeply flawed in it’s theology and world view. I was miserable in it. I explored Catholicism as a last resort and “bam” it not only made made logical sense it also was the open door out of oppression into freedom of the spirit. I’m sorry to use terms outside philosophy, but it’s the only way I can describe it. C. S. Lewis had a similar experience in returnging to Christianity. I identified with him on that score. Indeed, reading his books led me to explore faith in ways I was predisposed not to. In a way it was a leap into the dark, but I knew even so that there were loving arms waiting to catch me–like a child who trusts a parent who calls him in the night to come with him.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

The leap of faith is no more arduous than the leap of disbelief. There is no certainty with either leap, but there is vastly more satisfaction and joy with the leap of faith. The only reason for a leap to disbelief is that one has despaired of all hope for this life or for the next. Sartre and Camus talked constantly about this dilemma of disbelief.

 

[Della]

The leap of faith is no more arduous than the leap of disbelief. There is no certainty with either leap, but there is vastly more satisfaction and joy with the leap of faith. The only reason for a leap to disbelief is that one has despaired of all hope for this life or for the next. Sartre and Camus talked constantly about this dilemma of disbelief.

It seems to me, as well, that the whole idea of making a leap of faith depends on thinking that it is is an act of illogical emotion. Not at all. Just the opposite, in fact. It is realizing that truth exists, that it isn’t just data or information but a relationship with a person. Indeed, how can one leap into an idea? Don’t we leap into real things, like water or arms or even mud? Do people really leap into mere ideas? Does someone who embraces a cult adhere to it out of mere idealism? No. He trusts the cult leader–a person. Only then does he actually take on the leader’s ideas. Sunday’s Gospel reading (my body is real food and my blood real drink) is a perfect example of men trusting a person even when his ideas are so foreign to their understanding as to be ludicrous to them. Many turned away from Jesus because of his ideas, but they were only following because they could make sense, in their world context, of his ideas. No, Peter took a leap of faith based on what he saw in Christ, not because he understood all that he had to say at that point in his discipleship.