Is the New Revised Ordinal of 1989 Invalid for Traditional Catholics

[ProVobis]

What one Pope ordains, another Pope can change.

Why are ordinations in the schismatic churches still valid then? And can the Pope change Apostolic Succession or (other) divine law?

 

[Gregory_I]

I do not think the past was perfect. THat’s obviously why Trent had to Codify the mass of St. Pius V, because it was celebrated quite differently in different places. BUt I think the past is living and relevant. Tradition is NOT dead, because the One holy SPirit who guides the church is also the author of every dogmatic and infallible pronouncement of the church! And last I checked truth was relevant in all times and places and for all people: ALl are subject to the truth, and none are exmept from it, whether it be the difficult truth that original sin leaves a personal mark of guilt on the soul at the moment of birth, or something easier like: Anyone who says that a man is saved by works alone, let him be anathema.

Trent is relevant, LyonsII is relevant, Nicea is Relevant, Chalcedon is relevant, Vatican I is relevant, and yes, Vatican II is relevant, provided it is interpreted in continuity with tradition, and not against it.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

At one time, it was the tradition of the Church to burn “Heretics” at the stake. Sait Joan of Arc was burned at the stake as a heretic, because she wore mens clothing and led a military campaign against the English.

If traditions never changed, then we would still all be in the 1st century church.

No change made during Vatican II affected Apostolic Succession.

There have ONLY been two pronouncements made by the Church under the concept of “infallibility”. None were made by Pope Sai9nt Pius V, or any ANY Pope prior to the 19th century.

The fact that a Saint said that something could never change does not mean that something can never change. The fact that one council codified the Mass into one version does not mean that it can never be changed in the future.

It simply amazes me how some “traditionalists” can worship the past, while ignoring most of the past that proceeded what they accept.

The bottom line is, change is often difficult. Sadly, all too many “Traditionalists” simply refuse to change, instead worshiping something from the past instead of God. They forget that it is God himself, in the person of the Holy Spirit, that is leading the Church, and not some man who has been dead for hundreds of years.

 

[ProVobis]

It simply amazes me how some “traditionalists” can worship the past, while ignoring most of the past that proceeded what they accept.

This has already been addressed.

PIUS XII: Mediator Dei, 1947:The liturgy of early ages is worthy of veneration; but an ancient custom is not to be considered better, either in itself or in relation to later times and circumstances, just because it has the flavour of antiquity. More recent liturgical rites are also worthy of reverence and respect, because they too have been introduced under the guidance of the Holy Ghost, who is with the Church in all ages even to the consummation of the world . . .the desire to restore everything indiscriminately to its ancient condition is neither wise nor praiseworthy. It would be wrong, for example, to want the altar restored to its ancient form of a table; to want black excluded from the liturgical colours, and pictures and statues excluded from our churches . . . This attitude is an attempt to revive the ‘archaeologism’ to which the pseudo-synod of Pistoia gave rise; it seeks also to re-introduce the many pernicious errors which led to that synod and resulted from it and which the Church, in her capacity of watchful guardian of ‘the deposit of faith’ entrusted to her by her Divine Founder has rightly condemned.

The bottom line is, change is often difficult.

Yes, that’s the progressive party-line when they’re ready to spring on another wonderful “novelty” idea.

 

[laszlo]

Originally Posted by The Old Medic View Post
What one Pope ordains, another Pope can change.

Qui bene distinguit bene docet.

Some doctrines are unchangeable, those are not ‘ordained’ by a pope, but declared by a pope as permanent teachings of the Church. In the traditional time two of those were listed, as full list: the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin.

From this illegal conclusion that no Catholic teaching can be changed.

The Apostolic succession (“I believe … One, Saint, Catholic, Apostolic Church”) is not papal declaration, it is part of the oral tradition from the Apostolic times.