Is the society of Saint Pius really schismatic

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ProVobis said:
Not quite. Do you see a parallel Church with the perpetuation of bishops? As it stands right now, they are like Catholic laymen, able to receive the Sacraments just like all Catholics.
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Like I say to my children & Grandchildren, “What part of NO do you not understand?” So the Pope says NO to the sspx & the sspx do it anyway or ignore the Pope, they are schismatic. YOU ABANDON THE CHAIR OF SAINT PETER AND YOU STILL WANT TO CALL YOURSELF CATHOLIC!!! Thank God I pried my brother out of the sspx. So quibble all you want but the sspx is just a bunch of schismatic Christians.
 
garygodin said:
Like I say to my children & Grandchildren, “What part of NO do you not understand?” So the Pope says NO to the sspx & the sspx do it anyway or ignore the Pope, they are schismatic. YOU ABANDON THE CHAIR OF SAINT PETER AND YOU STILL WANT TO CALL YOURSELF CATHOLIC!!! Thank God I pried my brother out of the sspx. So quibble all you want but the sspx is just a bunch of schismatic Christians.
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Since the Holy See refuses to call the SSPX schismatic, you shouldn’t do it either.
The SSPX is disobedient. Let’s leave it at that.
 
JaMc said:
Let’s just put it this way - if the Church and SSPX were people on Facebook, their relationship status would be “It’s complicated.” 🙂
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:clapping:

Classic analogy - legendary post!
 
garygodin said:
Like I say to my children & Grandchildren, “What part of NO do you not understand?” So the Pope says NO to the sspx & the sspx do it anyway or ignore the Pope, they are schismatic. YOU ABANDON THE CHAIR OF SAINT PETER AND YOU STILL WANT TO CALL YOURSELF CATHOLIC!!! Thank God I pried my brother out of the sspx. So quibble all you want but the sspx is just a bunch of schismatic Christians.
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Then why is it o.k. for the average Catholic to attend an SSPX Mass on Sunday and fullfill their Sunday obligation? You are aware that Rome said it was o.k. to do this aren’t you?
 
I will throw in my $0.02 and ask a question:

According to Webster, “schism” is “a formal division in or separation from a church or religious body”.

So, is there a division or separation among the SSPX or are they just disobedient? The Church, unfortunately, has a number of priests and bishops who can be labeled “disobedient” yet they still have full faculities (think of the Orthodox). That the SSPX do not and do not solely because of their refusal to follow the wishes of the Pope makes them in schism - formally declared or not.

Now, my question: What in the H**L does it matter? Why do we constantly post and repost the same tired arguments and degrade our fellow Catholics in the process? What difference does it really make to me as a Catholic in the pews or you as on on the internet what official canonical status a Priest has? My only concern is “Is my Priest validly ordained and am I at a Church in full communion with Rome?”

P.S. - Yeah, I know it was more than one question. Yeah, I *know *why people ask and ask over and over…it just got to me today.
 
Tomster said:
Then why is it o.k. for the average Catholic to attend an SSPX Mass on Sunday and fullfill their Sunday obligation? You are aware that Rome said it was o.k. to do this aren’t you?
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You can’t discuss anything with a person in denial. You can only post a rebuttal so others won’t be mislead 🤷
 
TheDoctor said:
I will throw in my $0.02 and ask a question:

According to Webster, “schism” is “a formal division in or separation from a church or religious body”.

So, is there a division or separation among the SSPX or are they just disobedient? The Church, unfortunately, has a number of priests and bishops who can be labeled “disobedient” yet they still have full faculities (think of the Orthodox). That the SSPX do not and do not solely because of their refusal to follow the wishes of the Pope makes them in schism - formally declared or not.

Now, my question: What in the H**L does it matter? Why do we constantly post and repost the same tired arguments and degrade our fellow Catholics in the process? What difference does it really make to me as a Catholic in the pews or you as on on the internet what official canonical status a Priest has? My only concern is “Is my Priest validly ordained and am I at a Church in full communion with Rome?”

P.S. - Yeah, I know it was more than one question. Yeah, I *know *why people ask and ask over and over…it just got to me today.
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There is the Modern Catholic Dictionary, instead of a secular dictionary.
 
At_Trent said:
So is the pope stupid in your opinion ?

Let’s see. The excommunications are lifted, and the document refers to the four bishops as, Bishops. So, if the SSPX isn’t Catholic, how can a pope lift excommunications, and why are they called Bishops ?

If your opinion is correct, then apostolic succession is a big lie. :cool:
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This realy needs to be addressed.
 
Tomster said:
Then why is it o.k. for the average Catholic to attend an SSPX Mass on Sunday and fullfill their Sunday obligation? You are aware that Rome said it was o.k. to do this aren’t you?
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One more time Gary.

An answer please.
 
It is complicated. But i pray for the Holy See as well as SSPX to find a working solution.
As much as i pray for:

US and the economic future and future in general
Europe and it`s economic future and future in general
Fr Corapi
For there to be one massform, the Old Traditional Latin Mass
For the communionbenches and the beautiful high altars to be re-installed
and further on.
 
This is the letter from Monsignor Perl that a poster may be referring to regarding attendance at an SSPX Mass on Sunday:
Unfortunately, as you will understand, we have no way of controlling what is done with our letters by their recipients. Our letter of 27 September 2002, which was evidently cited in The Remnant and on various websites, was intended as a private communication dealing with the specific circumstances of the person who wrote to us. What was presented in the public forum is an abbreviated version of that letter which omits much of our pastoral counsel. Since a truncated form of this letter has now become public, we judge it appropriate to present the larger context of our response.
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In a previous letter to the same correspondent we had already indicated the canonical status of the Society of St. Pius X which we will summarize briefly here.
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1.) The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, but they are suspended from exercising their priestly functions. To the extent that they adhere to the schism of the late Archbishop Lefebvre, they are also excommunicated.
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2.) Concretely this means that the Masses offered by these priests are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to the law of the Church.
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Points 1 and 3 in our letter of 27 September 2002 to this correspondent are accurately reported. His first question was “Can I fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending a Pius X Mass” and our response was:
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“1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X.”
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His second question was “Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass” and we responded stating:
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“2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin.”
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His third question was: “Is it a sin for me to contribute to the Sunday collection a Pius X Mass” to which we responded:
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“3. It would seem that a modest contribution to the collection at Mass could be justified.”
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Further, the correspondent took the Commission to task for not doing its job properly and we responded thus:
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"This Pontifical Commission does not have the authority to coerce Bishops to provide for the celebration of the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. Nonetheless, we are frequently in contact with Bishops and do all that we can to see that this provision is made. However, this provision also depends on the number of people who desire the ‘traditional’ Mass, their motives and the availability of priests who can celebrate it.
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“You also state in your letter that the Holy Father has given you a ‘right’ to the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is not correct. It is true that he has asked his brother Bishops to be generous in providing for the celebration of this Mass, but he has not stated that it is a ‘right’. Presently it constitutes an exception to the Church’s law and may be granted when the local Bishop judges it to be a valid pastoral service and when he has the priests who are available to celebrate it. Every Catholic has a right to the sacraments (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 843), but he does not have a right to them according to the rite of his choice.”
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We hope that this puts in a clearer light the letter about which you asked us.
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With prayerful best wishes for this New Year of Our Lord 2003, I remain
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Sincerely yours in Christ,
Rev. Msgr. Camille Perl Secretary
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Here’s the link I got it from: latinmas.s701.sureserver.com/perl-011803.htm
 
The SSPX is formally not schismatic. This is evidenced by the fact that their priests and bishops are suspended. If they were formally schismatic they would not be subject to canon law and could not have their clergy suspended.

Probably the best way to think of the SSPX is as a suspended society.
 
Before proceeding, please read post # 9 in the rules linked below.

While it is true that the status of the Society of St. Pius X is irregular and their clergy remain suspended, it is also true that they are clergymen and must be spoken about with the respect that is due to ALL clerics and religious. The individual’s faults take nothing away from his or her state in life for which we must always show respect.
 
I don’t know… I get nervous when people disobey our Supreme Pontiff in such ways (Martin Luther started in this way and we see where that ended up).
I think of some of our reformer saints (St. Teresa of Avila and St. Francis of Assisi. ).
There was a time when they suffered a sort of isolation for their commitment to reform). However, they submitted to obedience in spite of great suffering.
I find that to be the difference between a true reformer and a schismatic: to submit in obedience and wait patiently on God is the mark of a true reformer.
So we wait and see what happens, and we pray for guidance when it comes to us
receiving sacraments from priests that are ordained in some of these societies.
If you are in doubt then don’t.
Our Pope has a beautiful apostolic exhortation that has helped me better understand his heart on these issues.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacrament,um-caritatis_en.html
 
TuAutem said:
The SSPX are inside the Church, but anyone attending one of their masses commits a sin within the Church, and they commit a sin every time they celebrate mass.
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So are you saying I sinned when I assisted at two SSPX Masses at St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome last summer, one at the altar of Pope St. Pius X and the following day at an SSPX Mass offered in The Clementine Chapel on the very bones of St. Peter, perhaps the most privileged altar in the Vatican?
 
Perhaps the question is better put this way: who claims people in SSPX or those who attend their services will go to hell?

That, I submit, is the issue of real importance. If one gains salvation, all else on this earth is unimportant.
 
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