Is the SSPX Third Order a Valid Third Order?

  • Thread starter Thread starter TrueLight
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
There are two, maybe more, canonical questions not to be confused. I would suggest that those who have never been religious superiors take the time to find out the canons before commenting, because you may do more harm than good. And no, reading them from the Code of Canon Law is not helpful enough, because for each of those codes that governs institutes of consecrated life, societies of apsotolic life, secular orders, and secular institutes, the Sacred Congregation has a plethora of rules. The canons are just the skeleton. The Sacred Congregation holds the final word on how the canons are to be applied.

. . .

None of this is going to be found in canon law. It’s all found in the Modus Procedendi of the Sacred Congregation Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
That’s a very long set of questions. But you previously stated, “Archbishop Lefebvre had the canonical authority to found such an association,” and now you say “For example, the SSPX sisters and brothers have a canonical place in the Church.” Why are you so confident on these points? Where did Archbishop Lefebvre get the canonical authority to do anything? In light of, inter alia, Canon 609, what makes you believe that a so-called religious house “erected” by Bishop Fellay would have any canonical “place in the Church”?
 
I am a member of the 3rd order, and a regular at the church serviced by the SSPX

My interest in the 3rd Order is to improve my spiritual life, nothing more nothing less. This is the focus of our meetings…which start and finish with prayers, and focuses on a text from pre Vatican 2,
 
I’m certainly glad somebody has this sorted out because there seems to be some confusion in Rome about this too. Perhaps Cardinal Hoyos needs this all explained to him along with most of Ecclesia Dei commission.

As for me I’ll just attend Mass as often as possible (EF particularily) and leave the squabbling to the “experts” in Rome and elsewhere. :amen:
Canonical Law can make your brain hurt…I just keep on keeping on and place my trust in the Lord 🙂
 
Bro JR, see my remarks below. I apologize in advance for their brevity. Before that, allow me to offer a few words on this from my perspective. At the (SSPX) priory where I assist at Mass, we have several lay folks who belong to Third Orders and have for many years. In addition to the SSPX Third Order, there are also Dominicans and Carmelites. We cooperate together within the chapel on many devotions. When the Feast of the Assumption arrives and we renew our commitments, the other Orders assist at that Mass and are included in our periodic days of recollection, given as a mission by one of the priests at our priory. As you can imagine, due to the irregular status of the Society, there is little concern among the faithful regarding the canonical status of the SSPX Third Order. Those that profess are simply looking for a strict rule to guide their interior life of prayer and to commit to, not only a more fervent prayer life, but to model that devotion for children, family members, etc. The added devotion to the Breviary involves us in the prayers for and by the church. Our vows and actions are what remain important to us when we promise ourselves before the Blessed Sacrament. However, I don’t mean to disparage or trivialize the canonical status of this or any other Third Order. Both my grandmother and my great-grandmother were buried in the Carmelite habit and their lives and professions made a profound impression on me and I hope to do the same for my children and friends alike.
The question on the table is whether or not the Third Order of the SSPX is canonically erected? The answer is, that it can be canonically erected by either a diocesan bishop within his diocese and under his oversight or as an association of Pontifical Right under the authority of the Sacred Congregation.
It is not canonically erected. It was started by Archbishop Lefebvre when he was Superior General at the request of the faithful who felt called to a more devoted interior life but whose state in life precluding them from participating in the First or Second Order or as a lay oblate.
The second canonical question is whether it is truly an order or a public association of the faithful?
Although we refer to it as an Order internally, it is more properly a public association of the faithful.
The third canonical question is the status of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X. This is a separate question from that of the third order of the SSPX, because the Sacred Congregation can treat all of the SSPX as one legal person or as several legal persons. It it treats all of them as one legal person, then the answer would be “negative.” The SSPX third order is not canonical. If the Sacred Congregation treats them as separate legal persons, it can rule that the third order is canonical and that the priestly fraternity is not.
To my knowledge, the Sacred Congregation has never been asked to nor has ever made a determination as to how it views the SSPX Third Order.
This leads to the last canonical question. When the members of the SSPX third order make profession, who receives the profession?

The question is whether or nor the superior of the SSPX third order has the canonical authority to represent the Church.
The SSPX Third Order has a chaplain who is appointed by the Superior General. In the U.S., that is Fr. Gardner. He in turn delegates to each prior the duty of receiving professions before the Blessed Sacrament. I’m afraid I can’t authoritatively answer the question as to Fr. Garnder’s canonical authority to receive the vows as a representative of the church. Again, without sounding trite, my intent is to make and keep a set vows professed before the Blessed Sacrament. I expect that this will all be sorted out when the Society is canonically regularized, albeit it may be among the last things addressed.
 
I am so happy that you stopped by this thread!

Would you mind sharing the types of penances you adhere to if it is not too personal?
Sure. They are not particular penances but those small offerings that are particular to our individual state of life. For instance, I might ask my wife to take a break while I do the dishes and give 6 children a bath - which we usually do together. In general, I would choose to do something that would relieve my wife, a family member, or perhaps someone at church from a job/duty/task they would normally do without giving up any of my obligations.

Penitential times such as Lent and to a lesser degree Advent, require larger and more efficacious penances generally along the same lines. There really is no list needed - Our Lord provides the opportunities in an obvious way, at least in my experience.
 
That’s a very long set of questions. But you previously stated, “Archbishop Lefebvre had the canonical authority to found such an association,” and now you say "For example, the SSPX sisters and brothers have a canonical place in the Church." Why are you so confident on these points? Where did Archbishop Lefebvre get the canonical authority to do anything? In light of, inter alia, Canon 609, what makes you believe that a so-called religious house “erected” by Bishop Fellay would have any canonical “place in the Church”?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that sometime this year a woman religious was given permission to transfer from her religious institute to the SSPX sisters.

I don’t can’t verify that this happened. However, if the report is true, it follows that the SSPX sisters have canonical status. Religious in solemn vows cannot transfer to a society of apostolic life without a canonical process, because it’s a step down. You’re going from solemn vows to simple vows. The after the two major superiors agree, the Saced Congregation has to approve the measure. If the vows are of equal value, solemn vows to solemn vows, you do not need to renew them. You simply transfer obedience. If they are not of equal value, solemn vows to simple vows, you are dispensed from the solemn vows and you profess simple vows. A model case was Mother Teresa. She was a nun in solemn vows. To join the Missionaries of Charity, which she founded, she had to receive a dispensation effective the same date that she made simple vows in the Missionaries of Charity. This way, there was no gap, but she went from being a nun to being a sister.
 
Bro JR, see my remarks below. I apologize in advance for their brevity. Before that, allow me to offer a few words on this from my perspective. At the (SSPX) priory where I assist at Mass, we have several lay folks who belong to Third Orders and have for many years. In addition to the SSPX Third Order, there are also Dominicans and Carmelites. We cooperate together within the chapel on many devotions. When the Feast of the Assumption arrives and we renew our commitments, the other Orders assist at that Mass and are included in our periodic days of recollection, given as a mission by one of the priests at our priory. As you can imagine, due to the irregular status of the Society, there is little concern among the faithful regarding the canonical status of the SSPX Third Order. Those that profess are simply looking for a strict rule to guide their interior life of prayer and to commit to, not only a more fervent prayer life, but to model that devotion for children, family members, etc. The added devotion to the Breviary involves us in the prayers for and by the church. Our vows and actions are what remain important to us when we promise ourselves before the Blessed Sacrament. However, I don’t mean to disparage or trivialize the canonical status of this or any other Third Order. Both my grandmother and my great-grandmother were buried in the Carmelite habit and their lives and professions made a profound impression on me and I hope to do the same for my children and friends alike.
This is OK. Many people make private vows and the Church recognizes them. She does not receive them, but she acknowledges that they exist.
It is not canonically erected. It was started by Archbishop Lefebvre when he was Superior General at the request of the faithful who felt called to a more devoted interior life but whose state in life precluding them from participating in the First or Second Order or as a lay oblate.
Who knows, the Sacred Congregation may treat it as a separate entity. The big issue with the SSPX is with the ordained. They are the ones who are suspended. I have never seen anything that says that their brothers or sisters are invalidly professed. As I keep saying, that’s the case with the Franciscans. We are one family with three orders and 112 obediences witihn those three orders. Each obedience is erected separately. The Church asks that we comply with the canonical requirements, the requirements of the local bishop, the requirements of the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, and in the case of Franciscans, with the rule that Francis wrote for your specific order, not the other two orders that he founded. The beginning is the approval of a bishop who is the ordinary of a diocese. The only exception is Opus Dei, because it is a prelature. It has its own Ordinary.
Although we refer to it as an Order internally, it is more properly a public association of the faithful.
A public association of the faithful has to be erected by the bishop of a diocese. An association can be public in that it is no secret and that it welcomes new members, but it cannot be a public association until it receives the Decree of Praise from a diocesan bishop. In that decree the diocesan bishop will state whether he grants it public association status or private association status. It is his call to make. Canonically, he is its major superior, though there is always a leader who actually runs the association.
The SSPX Third Order has a chaplain who is appointed by the Superior General. In the U.S., that is Fr. Gardner. He in turn delegates to each prior the duty of receiving professions before the Blessed Sacrament. I’m afraid I can’t authoritatively answer the question as to Fr. Garnder’s canonical authority to receive the vows as a representative of the church. Again, without sounding trite, my intent is to make and keep a set vows professed before the Blessed Sacrament. I expect that this will all be sorted out when the Society is canonically regularized, albeit it may be among the last things addressed.
Father does it this way, because he does not have the authirity to speak for the Church. In a typical profession, you always have an individual who receives the profession in the name of the Church. The wording is different, but essentially it’s the same meaning for secular orders, associations, religious orders and religious congregations.

For example, in the Franciscan family, whether you’re a religious or a secular, at the rite of profession the superior speaks in the name of Christ and the Church and his statement is accepted as infallible truth, because the Church is doing the speaking. Once you have stated your professon formula, the superior answers

“I, on the part of Christ, the Bl. Virgin Mary, our Holy Father Francis and the Church, promise that if you observe all these things you shall have eternal life.”

Every community has its own version of the same promise of eternal life made in the name of Christ and the Church, but the Church is specifically mentioned to ensure that the person doing the speaking is doing so, not in his name, but in the name of Christ and the Church. The profession is recorded and witnessed. Copies are sent to the proper canonical authority. If you wish to get out of it, you have to go through a canonical process and you can be denied.

In the case of private vows, you cannot be denied. The confessor dispenses you.

The day to day life does not change, because the canonical status is different. The day to day live is not governed by the canonical status, but by the rule or constitutions. In the case of the SSPX, it’s by the constitutions.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that sometime this year a woman religious was given permission to transfer from her religious institute to the SSPX sisters.
This was briefly claimed in a post on the sister’s own blog, but it was immediately taken down and the post deleted once it drew people’s attention. There has been no other evidence or confirmation of it. My guess is that it was a case of misinterpretation; e.g., the sister in question said to her superior, “I’m leaving you Novus Ordites and joining the SSPX! See ya!”, the superior said, “That’s a shame, but if that’s how you truly feel then I’m not going to stop you from leaving”, and certain blog propaganda machines morphed this into “Permission was given for a transfer! The Novus Ordo church now recognizes and approves the SSPX!”
I don’t can’t verify that this happened. However, if the report is true, it follows that the SSPX sisters have canonical status.
No; if it actually were true – for which there is no evidence, with the swift suppression of the claim actually being evidence against it – in logic all that need follow would be that the person responsible for giving such permission (1) mistakenly thought the SSPX sisters had canonical status, or (2) didn’t care that the SSPX sisters lacked canonical status, or even (3) was trying to create de facto canonical status for them by granting a permission she knew to be unjustifiable.
 
This was briefly claimed in a post on the sister’s own blog, but it was immediately taken down and the post deleted once it drew people’s attention. There has been no other evidence or confirmation of it. My guess is that it was a case of misinterpretation; e.g., the sister in question said to her superior, “I’m leaving you Novus Ordites and joining the SSPX! See ya!”, the superior said, “That’s a shame, but if that’s how you truly feel then I’m not going to stop you from leaving”, and certain blog propaganda machines morphed this into “Permission was given for a transfer! The Novus Ordo church now recognizes and approves the SSPX!”

No; if it actually were true – for which there is no evidence, with the swift suppression of the claim actually being evidence against it – in logic all that need follow would be that the person responsible for giving such permission (1) mistakenly thought the SSPX sisters had canonical status, or (2) didn’t care that the SSPX sisters lacked canonical status, or even (3) was trying to create de facto canonical status for them by granting a permission she knew to be unjustifiable.
If it happened this way, then no, the SSPX sisters are not a canonically erected institute. You need, at the very least, the permission of a diocesan bishop, not any bishop or an abbot. Abbots can only grant the permission to erect monasteries of their order. The bishops of the SSPX are not diocesan bishops. To the best of my knowledge, Bishop Fellay is not a canonically recognized major superior. I will say this with caution.

Under normal circumstances, when a community elects a general superior, if the community is of diocesan right, the bishop of the home diocese must ratify the election. If the community of pontifical right, the Holy See must ratify the election.

This is a theological and canonical mess. :eek: I’m glad that I’m not the one who has to sort it all out.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
No; if it actually were true – for which there is no evidence, with the swift suppression of the claim actually being evidence against it – in logic all that need follow would be that the person responsible for giving such permission (1) mistakenly thought the SSPX sisters had canonical status, or (2) didn’t care that the SSPX sisters lacked canonical status, or even (3) was trying to create de facto canonical status for them by granting a permission she knew to be unjustifiable.
Or none of the above.

It could have been that once the nun’s superiors realized the fire her blog post was igniting in the blogosphere, they did not want anyone to use her unique situation as defense for the SSPX’s status one way or the other and asked her to take it off.
 
If it happened this way, then no, the SSPX sisters are not a canonically erected institute. You need, at the very least, the permission of a diocesan bishop, not any bishop or an abbot. Abbots can only grant the permission to erect monasteries of their order. The bishops of the SSPX are not diocesan bishops. To the best of my knowledge, Bishop Fellay is not a canonically recognized major superior. I will say this with caution.

Under normal circumstances, when a community elects a general superior, if the community is of diocesan right, the bishop of the home diocese must ratify the election. If the community of pontifical right, the Holy See must ratify the election.

This is a theological and canonical mess. :eek: I’m glad that I’m not the one who has to sort it all out.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
For further information, the relevant SSPX website has this little gem of mendacity:
In 1997 a New Zealand Dominican Sister came to Wanganui to teach in the schools run by the Society of St Pius X. In January 2002 two young ladies from Australia joined Sister in the hope that a religious congregation would be founded. On 8 December 2002 Bishop Fellay gave permission for the foundation of a Congregation with the status equivalent to a Congregation of Diocesan Right.
Can’t found a Congregation of Diocesan Right, because of the tiny little issue that you are not a diocese and your canonical authority is less than zilch? No problem! Just invent a fake new status, and insist that there’s no difference. Hey, haven’t you heard? In this time of grave emergency . . .

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTc0Mzk4Nzg3M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzQ2NzAzMQ@@._V1.SY317_CR6,0,214,317.jpg

🙂
.
 
For further information, the relevant SSPX website has this little gem of mendacity:
In 1997 a New Zealand Dominican Sister came to Wanganui to teach in the schools run by the Society of St Pius X. In January 2002 two young ladies from Australia joined Sister in the hope that a religious congregation would be founded. On 8 December 2002 Bishop Fellay gave permission for the foundation of a Congregation with the status equivalent to a Congregation of Diocesan Right.
Can’t found a Congregation of Diocesan Right, because of the tiny little issue that you are not a diocese and your canonical authority is less than zilch? No problem! Just invent a fake new status, and insist that there’s no difference. Hey, haven’t you heard? In this time of grave emergency . . .

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTc0Mzk4Nzg3M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzQ2NzAzMQ@@._V1.SY317_CR6,0,214,317.jpg

🙂
.
In kindness and fairness, the wording says “equivalent to”. It does not say that is is a community of diocesan right. I’m just not sure what “equivalent to” means.

Diocesan right means that the bishop of the home diocese is in fact the major superior. He has to approve everything, their elections, their constitutions, their finances, their acquisition and disposal of property and their vows.

If it was set up so that all of these things have to be approved by Bishop Fellay, it would be a community that follows the same systems as a diocesan community. However, it it not a diocesan community. Because it’s not a diocesan community, it has no canonical status and its vows are private. Bishop Fellay does not have the authority to receive vows in the name of the Church.

This is rather interesting. As a bishop he can ordain. The ordination is illegal, but valid. He cannot receive public vows. Public vows can only be received by someone who has ordinary jurisdiction. It would be equivalent to making vows before your confessor or spiritual director. You’re bound to them, but they are private, even if they are professed in front of the US Congress. Private means that it’s between you and God. The person making the vows does not receive any of the graces mediated through the Church at the time of profession.

Many people take the profession of vows by brothers and sisters very lightly. The Church does not take them so lightly. If the person receiving them does not have the authority to speak for the Church, they are not public vows and the Church reserves the right to nullify them without notice. The Church can bind and unbind any vow that is not solemn. That’s why she cannot unbind marriage vows. They are solemn vows. Or when cloistered nuns, friars, monks or Jesuits leave, the Church can only dispense you from the obligation of the vows, but does not abolish them, because monks, friars and Jesuits make solemn vows.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Or none of the above.

It could have been that once the nun’s superiors realized the fire her blog post was igniting in the blogosphere, they did not want anyone to use her unique situation as defense for the SSPX’s status one way or the other and asked her to take it off.
This is actually more correct…I could ask sister about this but it would be pretty impertinent to do so and then spread it about on the internet. There are actually more than one sister at the convent who this could pertain to. Despite some pretty unpleasant comments on this thread, the convent in question is bursting at the seams with its noviate and has had to sprout further afield.🙂
 
Thanks Corsair.

I’m just wondering if the SSPX do become regularized or given an Ordinariate, will these Third Orders be given valid status, or is it all speculation at this point?
Howcome the server isn’t lifting the priests chausable in your picture? 😃
 
This is actually more correct…I could ask sister about this but it would be pretty impertinent to do so and then spread it about on the internet. There are actually more than one sister at the convent who this could pertain to. Despite some pretty unpleasant comments on this thread, the convent in question is bursting at the seams with its noviate and has had to sprout further afield.🙂
No, it would be impertinent to ask that. You’re right. I would simply place it in the category of an imerging community at this time. It’s future depends on the relationship between the SSPX and the Vatican.

The options are many. They can regularized as a public association of the faithful, a society of apostolic life, a secular institute (not the same as a secular order), or if they’re large enough, a congregation of Pontifical Right. They wouldn’t be a congregation of Diocesan Right, because they are not under a diocesan bishop. That’s the case with the Schoenstat Sisters. They are a public association of the faithful. The SOLT sisters are a society of apostolic life.

They could have a standing as that of the Daughters of Charity. They have a very strange status. They are none of the above, but they are not a religious order nor a religious congregation. I think they are called an institute of consecrated life or something like that. They were never allowed to be a religious order or religious congregation and there were no such things as societies of apostolic life when they were founded. As a result, they must always be governed by a male superior.
Howcome the server isn’t lifting the priests chausable in your picture? 😃
Give the kid a break. Can’t you see that he’s praying? Jeesh 😃

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Howcome the server isn’t lifting the priests chausable in your picture? 😃
I serve daily Mass twice a week and have served since 1963. However, if I saw what this priest is seeing, I would also drop the chasuble.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top