Is the Trinity reflected in sex?

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PluniaZ

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I have always thought that there are striking similarities between the Trinity and the act of heterosexual sex.

Genesis 2:24 says:
Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh.
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Here, right at the beginning of the Bible, is the concept of multiple persons having one substance. Moreover, when husband and wife come together in the flesh, a third person, their child, is conceived. Could one say then, that at that moment of conception, there are three persons in one flesh?

I know evangelicals are big on comparing marriage to the Trinity (there is a huge debate right now among evangelicals about whether God the Son is subordinate to God the Father in authority because God the Son is analogous to the wife in marriage, and they say the wife should be subordinate to her husband, but that’s another topic) … but I haven’t seen much about this analogy in the writings of Catholic saints. Below are two examples where this idea is hinted at, but not really explicit:

Saint John of Damascus says:
Wherefore all the qualities the Father has are the Son’s, save that the Father is unbegotten , and this exception involves no difference in essence nor dignity , but only a different mode of coming into existence. We have an analogy in Adam, who was not begotten (for God Himself moulded him), and Seth, who was begotten (for he is Adam’s son), and Eve, who proceeded out of Adam’s rib (for she was not begotten). These do not differ from each other in nature, for they are human beings: but they differ in the mode of coming into existence.
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newadvent.org/fathers/33041.htm
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Saint Thomas Aquinas says:
But if we consider the persons themselves spirating, then, as the Holy Ghost proceeds both from the Father and from the Son, the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father immediately, as from Him, and mediately, as from the Son; and thus He is said to proceed from the Father through the Son. So also did Abel proceed immediately from Adam, inasmuch as Adam was his father; and mediately, as Eve was his mother, who proceeded from Adam; although, indeed, this example of a material procession is inept to signify the immaterial procession of the divine persons.
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newadvent.org/summa/1036.htm
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That last italicized portion from Aquinas makes me wonder if the sex analogy for the Trinity is frowned upon among Catholics.

Thoughts?
 
PluniaZ said:
I have always thought that there are striking similarities between the Trinity and the act of heterosexual sex.

Genesis 2:24 says:

Here, right at the beginning of the Bible, is the concept of multiple persons having one substance. Moreover, when husband and wife come together in the flesh, a third person, their child, is conceived. Could one say then, that at that moment of conception, there are three persons in one flesh?

I know evangelicals are big on comparing marriage to the Trinity (there is a huge debate right now among evangelicals about whether God the Son is subordinate to God the Father in authority because God the Son is analogous to the wife in marriage, and they say the wife should be subordinate to her husband, but that’s another topic) … but I haven’t seen much about this analogy in the writings of Catholic saints. Below are two examples where this idea is hinted at, but not really explicit:

Saint John of Damascus says:

Saint Thomas Aquinas says:

That last italicized portion from Aquinas makes me wonder if the sex analogy for the Trinity is frowned upon among Catholics.

Thoughts?
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It is not true and is very wrong to use material analogies for God as literal.
 
hasantas said:
It is not true and is very wrong to use material analogies for God as literal.
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Don’t you think it’s interesting that, in some way, the highest act of human love, and the earthly origin of all human life, reflects the Divine?
 
The Church believes that marriage is a reflection of the Trinity, and that the act of procreation is a participation in God’s act of creation which He chooses to allow us to share in.

That said, I don’t think it’s accurate the characterize the Trinity in terms of human sexuality, as the neither Christ nor the Trinity were “created.” They have existed eternally with the Father, in the one Triune God.
 
In my understanding, this is one area where God revealed to humankind that love and the complete care of another is a key to the power of creation. Life is always orientated towards the other.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
The Church believes that marriage is a reflection of the Trinity, and that the act of procreation is a participation in God’s act of creation which He chooses to allow us to share in.

That said, I don’t think it’s accurate the characterize the Trinity in terms of human sexuality, as the neither Christ nor the Trinity were “created.” They have existed eternally with the Father, in the one Triune God.
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Thanks. Are you aware of any writings of the saints or the church on this matter?
 
PluniaZ said:
Thoughts?
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I’ve heard this analogy before from some fairly popular Carholic speakers. But it has always seems backwards to me. The Gospels state that the father sends down the Holy Spirit to Mary so she could conceive Jesus. After Jesus ascended into heaven he sends back down the Holy Spirit. It would seem more correct to say the Father and the Holy Spirit came together to send Jesus. But I feel like we’re splitting hairs. If you really want an analogy about marriage look to the sacraments. Marriage is symbolic to the sacraments of initiation. Betrothal is symbolic of Baptism. Marriage is symbolic to Confirmation. Consummation is symbolic to the Eucharist. In fact, when you receive the Eucharist your soul becomes one with God. And every time you receive the Eucharist you renew your Baptism and Confirmation. Similarly, when you engage in sex with your spouse you renew your sacramental marriage. It’s no mistake that Jesus is the bridegroom and the Mass is also called the marriage supper of the lamb. When you go to Mass you participate in your divine marriage. All that incense the priest uses represents a veil. You wouldn’t want to have sex with a dirty spouse. Likewise, reconciliation cleans your soul to be received by God. Marriage and sex are reflections of the divine marriage. God has given us the ability to become one with him, but the only way to naturally become one with another person is to have both your DNA create a new person. Of course, this world is imperfect and not everyone will be able to conceive, but heterosexual sex within marriage is still the only way to reflect the divine marriage.
 
Okay now, this is speculative. We are created in the image and likeness of God who is a spiritual Trinity of Divine persons. Would our marital procreative and unitive act be a physical image of the Divine relationship?
 
It’s a well known fact that some of the ancients considered 3 to be a mystical number.

jwilson.coe.uga.edu/EMAT6680Fa06/Hobgood/Pythagoras.html

The universe we Catholics believe proceeded from the Trinity. The number 3 does have a sexual implication, but interestingly, the entire universe is a kind of trinity of protons, electrons and neutrons.

When God said “Let us make man in our image and likeness,” the number 3 takes on all the more significance.
 
mikeeh said:
I’ve heard this analogy before from some fairly popular Carholic speakers. But it has always seems backwards to me. The Gospels state that the father sends down the Holy Spirit to Mary so she could conceive Jesus. After Jesus ascended into heaven he sends back down the Holy Spirit. It would seem more correct to say the Father and the Holy Spirit came together to send Jesus. But I feel like we’re splitting hairs. If you really want an analogy about marriage look to the sacraments. Marriage is symbolic to the sacraments of initiation. Betrothal is symbolic of Baptism. Marriage is symbolic to Confirmation. Consummation is symbolic to the Eucharist. In fact, when you receive the Eucharist your soul becomes one with God. And every time you receive the Eucharist you renew your Baptism and Confirmation. Similarly, when you engage in sex with your spouse you renew your sacramental marriage. It’s no mistake that Jesus is the bridegroom and the Mass is also called the marriage supper of the lamb. When you go to Mass you participate in your divine marriage. All that incense the priest uses represents a veil. You wouldn’t want to have sex with a dirty spouse. Likewise, reconciliation cleans your soul to be received by God. Marriage and sex are reflections of the divine marriage. God has given us the ability to become one with him, but the only way to naturally become one with another person is to have both your DNA create a new person. Of course, this world is imperfect and not everyone will be able to conceive, but heterosexual sex within marriage is still the only way to reflect the divine marriage.
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I am not referring to the Incarnation, but to the inner life of the Trinity itself, where the Father begets the Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Marriage is a sacrament. And sacrament means mystery. The greatest mystery of all is the Most Holy Trinity.
 
Bill1940 said:
Okay now, this is speculative. We are created in the image and likeness of God who is a spiritual Trinity of Divine persons. Would our marital procreative and unitive act be a physical image of the Divine relationship?
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I don’t know. But it seems to me that in the procreative act, there are three persons in one flesh (Genesis 2:24). I haven’t seen any Catholic writings about this, and was wondering if others have.
 
PluniaZ said:
I am not referring to the Incarnation, but to the inner life of the Trinity itself, where the Father begets the Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.
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Which is always orientated to the other. Never internal.
 
PluniaZ said:
I am not referring to the Incarnation, but to the inner life of the Trinity itself, where the Father begets the Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Marriage is a sacrament. And sacrament means mystery. The greatest mystery of all is the Most Holy Trinity.
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It would still make more sense the other way. After all, Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. Incidentally, there was a cult in early Christianity that believed the Holy Spirit was the female equivalent to the Father, and they named her Sophia. Still, just because the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son does not mean there was a conjugal relationship. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son because that was the next step in the process of salvation. The Father and the Spirit were more active in the Old Testament than the Son because they were preparing the way, but the Spirits work was not finished with resurrection of the Son.
 
mikeeh said:
It would still make more sense the other way. After all, Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. Incidentally, there was a cult in early Christianity that believed the Holy Spirit was the female equivalent to the Father, and they named her Sophia. Still, just because the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son does not mean there was a conjugal relationship. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son because that was the next step in the process of salvation. The Father and the Spirit were more active in the Old Testament than the Son because they were preparing the way, but the Spirits work was not finished with resurrection of the Son.
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We seem to be talking past each other. My original post was asking if the Trinity in its “immanent” sense, without regard to creation, but the eternal relations between the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is in some way reflected in the human act of sexual procreation. But you seem to be thinking in terms of the Trinity in its “economic” sense - the work of the persons of the Trinity toward creation. Again, my original question is just about the immanent understanding of the Trinity, not the economic workings of God toward creation.

Also, it is incorrect to say, “The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son because that was the next step in the process of salvation.” The truth is that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son eternally, without regard to creation or the process of salvation. At the same time, the way in which the Holy Spirit is sent to the Apostles (by Jesus breathing on them, and following the Ascension) reflects that the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son.

This link to Aquinas might help:

newadvent.org/summa/1043.htm

“Thus if the sender be designated as the principle of the person sent, in this sense not each person sends, but that person only Who is the principle of that person who is sent; and thus the Son is sent only by the Father; and the Holy Ghost by the Father and the Son. If, however, the person sending is understood as the principle of the effect implied in the mission, in that sense the whole Trinity sends the person sent.” (Q 43.8)
 
PluniaZ said:
I am not referring to the Incarnation, but to the inner life of the Trinity itself, where the Father begets the Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Marriage is a sacrament. And sacrament means mystery. The greatest mystery of all is the Most Holy Trinity.
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The Trinity is the basis for every single piece of Christian theology without exception.
In the Trinity is held everything that is, and all else unfolds from it (or rather Him…we struggle for words).

Marriage is called the primordial sacrament for a reason. Theology of the Body makes this connection explicitly and thoroughly.
 
goout said:
The Trinity is the basis for every single piece of Christian theology without exception.
In the Trinity is held everything that is, and all else unfolds from it (or rather Him…we struggle for words).

Marriage is called the primordial sacrament for a reason. Theology of the Body makes this connection explicitly and thoroughly.
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Thanks. Do you remember the specific reference?
 
PluniaZ said:
Thanks. Do you remember the specific reference?
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Talk #9 speaks about this. Nov 14 1979. It is a them that runs throughout though.
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM
Christopher West distills it like this:
THE POPE’S THESIS
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The Pope’s thesis, if we let it sink in, is sure to revolutionize the way we understand the human body and sexuality. “The body, and it alone,” John Paul says, “ is capable of making visible what is invisible, the spiritual and divine. It was created to transfer into the visible reality of the world, the invisible mystery hidden in God from time immemorial, and thus to be a sign of it” (Feb 20, 1980).
A mouthful of scholarly verbiage, I know. What does it mean? As physical, bodily creatures we simply cannot see God. He’s pure Spirit. But God wanted to make his mystery visible to us so he stamped it into our bodies by creating us as male and female in his own image (Gn 1:27).
The function of this image is to reflect the Trinity, “an inscrutable divine communion of [three] Persons” (Nov 14, 1979). Thus, in a dramatic development of Catholic thought, John Paul concludes that “man became the ‘image and likeness’ of God not only through his own humanity, but also through the communion of persons which man and woman form right from the beginning.” And, the Pope adds, “On all of this, right from ‘the beginning,’ there descended the blessing of fertility linked with human procreation” (ibid).
The body has a “nuptial meaning” because it reveals man and woman’s call to become a gift for one another, a gift fully realized in their “one flesh” union. The body also has a “generative meaning” that (God willing) brings a “third” into the world through their communion. In this way, marriage constitutes a “primordial sacrament” understood as a sign that truly communicates the mystery of God’s Trinitarian life and love to husband and wife – and through them to their children, and through the family to the whole world.
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