Is there a free will in Heaven and Hell?

[ANV]

If there is, then the souls in heaven can sin and go to Hell.
The souls in Hell can repent and go to Heaven.
Specially that God is, as some claim, beyond time and space, so the end of our own life doesn’t mean the end of our soul’s decisions and will and God judgement is beyond it.
What do you think?

 

[Vonsalza]

I get antsy when anyone tries to make any sort of specific declaration about what the hereafter will be like for anyone in any place.

But I’m not sure that we will then be as we are now as it pertains to virtually anything.

 

[Tim_D]

If there is, then the souls in heaven can sin and go to Hell.
The souls in Hell can repent and go to Heaven.
Specially that God is, as some claim, beyond time and space, so the end of our own life doesn’t mean the end of our soul’s decisions and will and God judgement is beyond it.
What do you think?

What do I think? I think that you need to learn the basics before you try to dazzle us with your brilliance.

 

[MaryT777]

I always find this passage of the Bible interesting; just something to ponder.

Luke 16:19-31New International Version (NIV)

The Rich Man and Lazarus
19*“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22*“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25*“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. **26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
*27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29*“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30*“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31*“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[truetofaith]

I first thought there is free will but on second thought…if there is the people will be going in & out of heaven & hell.
The Bible says you are at your destination for eternity.

 

[rinnie]

If there is, then the souls in heaven can sin and go to Hell.
The souls in Hell can repent and go to Heaven.
Specially that God is, as some claim, beyond time and space, so the end of our own life doesn’t mean the end of our soul’s decisions and will and God judgement is beyond it.
What do you think?

Not according to Catholic teaching. Those in hell have refused to obey God and choose to reject him. Those in heaven have chosen to obey God and live with him forever.

There is no changes at this stage of the game. You accept and obey, or reject and become your own god.

 

[ANV]

Obviously there is no free choice in Heaven or Hell as far as staying or leaving, or Hell would be empty. If it exists as we are told, I can not imagine why anyone would choose to leave Heaven. Those in Hell might want to leave but we are told they cannot. I’m sure all the occupants of Hell would like a second chance, but their God is stubborn and unforgiving in this matter. I think the original question was a good one. Tim D’s response is out of place.

Then are limited sins worthy eternal suffering?

Not according to Catholic teaching. Those in hell have refused to obey God and choose to reject him. Those in heaven have chosen to obey God and live with him forever.

There is no changes at this stage of the game. You accept and obey, or reject and become your own god.

“Rejecting” God doesn’t mean you become a god yourself, you would just still be a finite human living on this planet.

 

[Tim_D]

Obviously there is no free choice in Heaven or Hell as far as staying or leaving, or Hell would be empty. If it exists as we are told, I can not imagine why anyone would choose to leave Heaven. Those in Hell might want to leave but we are told they cannot. I’m sure all the occupants of Hell would like a second chance, but their God is stubborn and unforgiving in this matter. I think the original question was a good one. Tim D’s response is out of place.

Perhaps you need to learn a little about the subject, too.

Heaven and hell is not a “place” where we go, up or down; heaven is being united with God in His presence. One cannot want to “leave” hell because hell is the reality of an absence of God. Free choice has nothing to do with it. If one were to experience being drowned in the infinite goodness and mercy of God’s presence, the thought of ever “leaving” it would never cross one’s mind.

The original question is most certainly not a good one. One who is in God’s presence cannot sin nor can they even consider it. What do you think the whole point of salvation is if one who achieves heaven can then be cast into hell by freely sining? It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[o_mlly]

If there is, then the souls in heaven can sin and go to Hell.
The souls in Hell can repent and go to Heaven.
Specially that God is, as some claim, beyond time and space, so the end of our own life doesn’t mean the end of our soul’s decisions and will and God judgement is beyond it.
What do you think?

We believe that after our temporal life, our life in time, we enter eternity. Change can only occur in time. Our affections determine our attitudes and our attitudes determine our behaviors.

If, at the moment of our death, our affection for God is less than our affection for self then we enter eternity with that unfortunate disposition and its corresponding attitude. We can no longer change (requires time) our affections and attitudes in eternity by an act of will. We can still freely act in our behaviors but only from our final temporal and, in eternity, permanent dispositions. For instance, the saints may freely act through prayer to intercede for the benefit of others, for the suffering in purgatory whose dispositions are correct but whose past behaviors require spiritual cleansing or the pilgrims who exist in time and may still correct their errant dispositions but not for the lost souls in hell. They died loving themselves more than God and will remain selfish for all eternity. But we cannot limit God who wills that all men come to salvation. We pray every day that God’s will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Do we also pray that God’s will be done in hell?

 

[Richca]

Well, if there is no free will in heaven or hell, what kind of beings who were once human beings on earth are in heaven or hell? Having free will belongs to the very nature of human beings, its a part of what makes a human being be a human being and having a free will along with an intellect is how human beings are principally made in the image and likeness of God. Heaven or hell does not destroy the nature of human beings. In fact, grace and heavenly glory perfects nature, it does not destroy it. So yes, there is free will in heaven and hell.

If there is, then the souls in heaven can sin and go to Hell.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Not according to Catholic teaching. Those in hell have refused to obey God and choose to reject him. Those in heaven have chosen to obey God and live with him forever.

There is no changes at this stage of the game. You accept and obey, or reject and become your own god.

Exactly. Those in Hell are content to be there, they never wanted to be around God in their lives, and now forever they can be without God. You don’t every have to make any choices again once you die.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

**“Those in hell have refused to obey God and choose to reject him.” … “One cannot want to “leave” hell because hell is the reality of an absence of God…”
**
And as soon as the fire hits them, if they have any free will at all I’m sure they would suddenly agree to obey and accept God. How can Hell be an absence of God? We are taught God is everywhere. Hell is part of that everywhere.

“Heaven and hell is not a “place” where we go, …” Jesus descended into Hell, Mary ascended into Heaven. You can’t descend or ascend unless it is to an existing “place”

There’s no free will in Heaven or Hell. That ends with one’s death. The afterlife is the fulfillment of how one chose to use his or her free will during their lifetimes.

 

[ANV]

Exactly. Those in Hell are content to be there, they never wanted to be around God in their lives, and now forever they can be without God. You don’t every have to make any choices again once you die.

Are you applying that those in Hell are happy to be there?
Also not wanting to be around God doesn’t mean you want to be in Hell around the devil.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

If there is, then the souls in heaven can sin and go to Hell.
The souls in Hell can repent and go to Heaven.
Specially that God is, as some claim, beyond time and space, so the end of our own life doesn’t mean the end of our soul’s decisions and will and God judgement is beyond it.
What do you think?

If the sin nature is what causes us to sin, then taking that nature away in the next life, which God would do by giving believers new bodies, eliminates sin. You’ll have free-will but it will only be to choose between good options, and being given a new body with a non-sinful nature will mean that good is all that you’ll want to do. I doubt that there would be much objection with that view since even many atheists argue (as part of the problem of evil argument) that God could’ve created a world where people would only choose good. That type of world is precisely what I’m referring to in my reasoning.

 

[tonyrey]

Are you applying that those in Hell are happy to be there?
Also not wanting to be around God doesn’t mean you want to be in Hell around the devil.

Implying?

Those who choose to reject God are inevitably isolated and frustrated because although they are independent and enjoy having their own kingdom they are detestable! The lust for power is deep-rooted but it always leads to misery when it becomes a substitute for love…

 

[inocente]

Is there a free will in Heaven and Hell?

Yes.

Several posters have told me that if our mind relied on the brain alone, free-will would be impossible, since brain = material = deterministic. Therefore, they claim, our minds must be immaterial or we couldn’t have free-will.

So by their argument, in heaven and hell a mind is unfettered from the material world and there would be nothing to prevent free-will in abudance.

 

[Vonsalza]

If the sin nature is what causes us to sin, then taking that nature away in the next life, which God would do by giving believers new bodies, eliminates sin. You’ll have free-will but it will only be to choose between good options, and being given a new body with a non-sinful nature will mean that good is all that you’ll want to do. I doubt that there would be much objection with that view since even many atheists argue (as part of the problem of evil argument) that God could’ve created a world where people would only choose good. That type of world is precisely what I’m referring to in my reasoning.

Pretty close to my view…

 

[rinnie]

Then are limited sins worthy eternal suffering?

“Rejecting” God doesn’t mean you become a god yourself, you would just still be a finite human living on this planet.

sure it does, to an extent. You either love and follow what God desires, or you love and follow yourself, which would make you your own god to yourself.

My line of reasoning is this, say I am I need help, so I pray and ask God to help me, to lead me down the right path. But if I reject God, I don’t ask for his help I rely on myself only, which in turn makes myself a type of god. If you look at it the way I am saying you can understand what I mean.

 

[rinnie]

Are you applying that those in Hell are happy to be there?
Also not wanting to be around God doesn’t mean you want to be in Hell around the devil.

Yes it does. Hell is eternal separation from God. And it is your choice to be there not the choice of God.