Is there a moral difference between female and male masturbation?

[CleverUserName]

Actually, female orgasm IS conducive to conception.

Graphic description, but here’s exactly what happens:

If you are lying on your back, the semen pools in front of the cervix and the cervix above it will dip repeatedly down into the semen during vaginal contractions (during orgasm.) …

I remember watching a video of this cervical action in college. Completely freaked me out lol, and I blurted “MY cervix does NOT do that!!”

 

[CleverUserName]

You are far more optimistic about my future than I am. I don’t feel there is any hope for a husband in my future and it seems bleak to not have anything more than work and coming home to a lonely apt. I do try to follow teachings in this regard and I was abused as a kid really badly … my priest is really kind about it and it’s more a compulsive behavior. I never did this married, so it’s really difficult. It does though seem like a waste of my life to have no pleasure at all.

This really saddens me.

Have you considered a religious order? There is much purpose and pleasure to be found in them.

I’ll pray for you, Irishgal. I really wish you happiness.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

These quotes are not the catholic doctrine, per se. They are, only, theological points of view, local rules… without link with the Holy Tradition, with the Holy Bible or with the official doxa from the Pope. In the past, catholic theologians had difficulties to teach a positive thought on the marital act. The great catholic theologians are not the Pope, or not the official doctrine.

Now, it is clearer (from Vatican I until Benedict XVI). The conjugal moral of the marital act within catholic marriage has links, only, with the natural moral order of marital act (natural moral law of marital act): not more and not less.

It would be more truthful and straightforward to say that they spoke of it in negative terms.

 

[milos7]

Hi people, I have been off for some weeks as I thought the debate ended but here it is. Sorry for the long post.

Listen up everybody: There is a moral difference between male and female masturbation.

This is because a woman is different to a man.

1. Woman needs much more to reach orgasm than a man. Woman needs a lot of touches, round and round, in various places of her body. Breasts, armpits, ear lobes, toes, thighs, hair, nose, belly, hip, buttocks, back, you name it. It’s not just the clitoris, inner lips or the G spot. Men have mostly one thing. But there is hardly a woman which would settle for a “just-stick-it-in-and-wiggle” approach.
   Physiologically, a woman receives, a man gives. Look at the body. A woman has the space, a man fills it! A woman waits, a man seeks. A woman shows, a man does it. Does it for her, to her, with her. Woman takes the enjoyment. Ideally.
   She needs the other! This multitude can be satisfied only by someone else. Her own touch will only dilute -steel, if you like- the feeling/sensation. Physically, as if a half of it went to the touched place, the other half is absorbed in the touching part. Only a touch from outside keeps everything for her.
   God made a woman like this and he knows it well and he sees that it is good.
2. A woman needs the context. A man needs one thing. Context in various aspects, again: in relationshipS (yes, many of them), the environmental context (mostly a nicely done house), time context, context of thoughts and imagination, context of a story, romance… .
   This she is not able to give to herself. You can’t buy yourself a bunch of roses and think how romantic this gift is. She needs the other person. Even others (usually subconsciously ordered in an intricate hierarchy).
   It normally takes a couple of days or weeks before a woman can fully be open for all pleasure receptors to receive what’s due. Won’t happen over a few minutes! Yes, the orgasm starts developing over a few weeks, sometimes. And then there are those bloody days… full of pain.
   For a woman considers a lot more than a man. That’s just how women think. They see both good and bad in various things often hidden to men. And naturally, they can be troubled more easily than men. They are more volatile emotionally. Even statistics tell you more women feel anxiety than men.
   God made a woman like this and he knows it well and he sees that it is good.
3. Women are generally weaker in physical strength, more prone to irritation, infection and by nature lack the physical constancy.
   God made a woman like this and he knows it well and he sees that it is good.
4. It takes a lot of effort to satisfy a woman. Sex itself is a workout of body, mind and spirit. But more so for guys than women. Women take and enjoy. Guys are required to keep everything going - they need to provide the stability and constancy for the multitude of her receptors - of the spirit (intentions), mind (care, attention), body (holding, keeping “everything” up and running - constantly).
   God made a woman like this and he knows it well and he sees that it is good.

If a woman is not getting all this, then it’s a lot to deal with.
Some cannot handle and reach for an advertised solution. Those who do not divert to the falseness, are holy, true heroines, saints. They are martyrs. Those who suck it up from their husbands, from the society… Martyrs of their own bodies, desires, senses, feelings. Sometimes even their own souls, sometimes they loose themselves. These girls are the redemptoresses. If there were more women like this the world would be a better place.
But those who cannot handle this multi-burden, cannot be condemned. God wants us to be saints but will not force. Silently expects, has set an example, but does not coldly assert it. Look, he brings sinners to heaven. Do you really expect him to take this sort of failure to cope as some sort of a mortal deadly sin? I don’t think so. Surely, no one knows God’s mind. But if I ever get to judge a weak woman I will advocate to God to say to her “Hey, just don’t worry about it.” I will plead him to open his arms and give her everything she has ever desired and never got. I am pretty sure whoever stops worrying about it then, will not worry about it again - for the whole eternity.

Was this was Jesus was scribbling with his finger into the sand when he faced the “adulterous” woman? Or did he write who/where is the adulterous man?
Wasn’t Jesus full of this kind of tact and pure politeness to the THIRSTY woman with 5 “husbands”?

But if a man masturbates, that usually means only one thing: He is after just one thing. A one thing that surely can be overcome, replaced, transformed, handled, offered up - it’s just one thing, for God’s sake! It does not touch his all being. The body tells you - it touches only one part of the body, compared to the multitude of the parts and places and ways on the woman’s body. And what is this one thing? The pleasure? The pride / ego? The fulfilment?
Men have their pains too, but they usually go faster. The desire to create, give, leave something behind, achieve, make someone happy etc. And yes, also to feel good. All legitimate. The good feeling is usually shorter than that of the women. The many factors are also there but in much less quantity and quality. They have much better ability to recover and move on. Ability to suppress, to be firm in priorities. This is where they have been given more and more will be expected of them.

So there is a difference. A moral one too.

 

[milos7]

So there is a difference. A moral one too.

However, it still is a pervert act. I guess all I am trying to say is that we live in a pervert world, perverted by the first sin. Returning to the original state of paradise requires also a pervert response. Such as dying on the cross. What a stupidity! Craziness, foolishness of the cross! One die for many? Yeah?, how does this work? Bloodthirsty much? See, we don’t know and we never will. Those preachers who explain, don’t know what they talk about. Death is a stupid idea (now I don’t mean the falling of a fully mature body like a ripened apple). And yet God goes head down to it. Willingly accepts it, does nothing to stop it, he said that’s why he came - to suffer … Pervert. Another example, we ought to multiply, we were meant to be a male and female one body one soul, kids are the natural joy and desire, it’s almost impossible to not love your own. And yet, here we have celibacy, self-denial, mortifications… Perversity. Yes, the perversity of our state requires it. A human is a social creature and yet here we have hermits! Weirdos? Well, the spoiled world needs their attitudes and prayers. Etc etc.
It’s just that we sometimes mistake the to-Eden-returning perversity (the required one) with the further-adding-to-confusion perversity (the bad one).
Do you think all this return business of God (or better, all of us primarily) can be maintained and brought to the successful end with people taking their pleasure whenever they feel like it? Imitating the sex pleasure whenever they see or hear about sex or whenever they remember their legitimate desires? Doesn’t this resemble the first quick “solution” of wanting to be like God? That was, and still is, a result of a growth, The fruit of a tree, if you like. But no, we thought to cut the corner. Of course we were not yet ready to understand the meaning of maturation, of course this “death” was to then scare us. Of course we were then going to die - not in body that is. Masturbation is a quick fix - a plaster solution - and spoils your imagination. Be honest, would you do it if you were not motivated by various ads?

At last, let me explain the terms I use.
I operate on the following level:
Love is only for God and people (not for chocolate for example), primarily for spouses, children and family.
Sex is only between a wife and husband (not partners, not gays, not prostitutes, not masturbation…). The essence is the EMBRACE.
Masturbation is only for SELF pleasing (it’s different if you do it for medical reasons or to know yourself - but careful there, especially in the young age!)
Orgasm is -and should be- a result of SEX (masturbation and those other things give a limited imitation).

What we get otherwise is a misuse. Get a knife, cut an apple - OK. But yep, you can also cut your finger or someone’s throat = not good.

For you, who have never had any sex pleasure, I sincerely wish you could get to experience it somehow so that you know how to talk about it. But please do not sin getting it - rather stay uninformed and consequently silent (maybe in prayer). Remember, what happens in dreams or in masturbation is very different. I think a person should know what his body does - but can you do it without the intention of seeking the pleasure? I doubt it would give you the same result.

I have been married for 19 years. Thank God, we sex a lot. We learnt how to wait for each other. We use various poses, use all our bodies, watch or listen to the other, give the other what is due, deserved, desired… And yes, we use condoms, lubes, nice lingerie (- please ye old “faithful” don’t get scandalised under the impression that the Church forbids condoms. Church simply cannot approve in general terms something which is wildly “conveniently” used for adultery). In our case it’s within the sacramental marriage, for the good of our relationship. It is a hard task, it takes a long time and a lot of energy. It took us about 16 years to work out what is the best. And yes, I am the male. And yes, I have masturbated, quite a lot I think. Even recently. I vividly observed how the lie operates within the mind. I tried without imagination/fantasies - doesn’t work. I tried watching sexual intercourses on media without getting aroused - doesn’t work (I could only handle a magazine once, and that’s because I was immersed in long prayer before and after, but not movies). I realised my only motivation, in the highest moment, was the good for the other. And when the other was not really there – I mean my other – I experienced the stupid feelings of frustration, inadequacy, loneliness… I experienced the spoiling of the mind, becoming impure in sight. I experienced the temptation to consider all this OK. I resisted to confess it. But I always have. I experienced the determination not to do it. And I don’t. I experienced converting my sexual desire into a spiritual force. I can only believe it works but the big desire is still there -thank God! Now this is from the male’s perspective. My wife never ever masturbated. Yes she is holy. So I don’t know how that would work for her, but we gladly forgo that “knowledge” for purity.

Trust me on this. Yes, there is a difference, just don’t misuse it, do your holy best, OK? God bless you all.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Hi people, I have been off for some weeks as I thought the debate ended but here it is. Sorry for the long post.

Listen up everybody: There is a moral difference between male and female masturbation.

This is because a woman is different to a man.

1. Woman needs much more to reach orgasm than a man. Woman needs a lot of touches, round and round, in various places of her body. Breasts, armpits, ear lobes, toes, thighs, hair, nose, belly, hip, buttocks, back, you name it. It’s not just the clitoris, inner lips or the G spot. Men have mostly one thing. But there is hardly a woman which would settle for a “just-stick-it-in-and-wiggle” approach.
   Physiologically, a woman receives, a man gives. Look at the body. A woman has the space, a man fills it! A woman waits, a man seeks. A woman shows, a man does it. Does it for her, to her, with her. Woman takes the enjoyment. Ideally.
   She needs the other! This multitude can be satisfied only by someone else. Her own touch will only dilute -steel, if you like- the feeling/sensation. Physically, as if a half of it went to the touched place, the other half is absorbed in the touching part. Only a touch from outside keeps everything for her.
   God made a woman like this and he knows it well and he sees that it is good.
2. A woman needs the context. A man needs one thing. Context in various aspects, again: in relationshipS (yes, many of them), the environmental context (mostly a nicely done house), time context, context of thoughts and imagination, context of a story, romance… .
   This she is not able to give to herself. You can’t buy yourself a bunch of roses and think how romantic this gift is. She needs the other person. Even others (usually subconsciously ordered in an intricate hierarchy).
   It normally takes a couple of days or weeks before a woman can fully be open for all pleasure receptors to receive what’s due. Won’t happen over a few minutes! Yes, the orgasm starts developing over a few weeks, sometimes. And then there are those bloody days… full of pain.
   For a woman considers a lot more than a man. That’s just how women think. They see both good and bad in various things often hidden to men. And naturally, they can be troubled more easily than men. They are more volatile emotionally. Even statistics tell you more women feel anxiety than men.
   God made a woman like this and he knows it well and he sees that it is good.
3. Women are generally weaker in physical strength, more prone to irritation, infection and by nature lack the physical constancy.
   God made a woman like this and he knows it well and he sees that it is good.
4. It takes a lot of effort to satisfy a woman. Sex itself is a workout of body, mind and spirit. But more so for guys than women. Women take and enjoy. Guys are required to keep everything going - they need to provide the stability and constancy for the multitude of her receptors - of the spirit (intentions), mind (care, attention), body (holding, keeping “everything” up and running - constantly).
   God made a woman like this and he knows it well and he sees that it is good.

If a woman is not getting all this, then it’s a lot to deal with.
Some cannot handle and reach for an advertised solution. Those who do not divert to the falseness, are holy, true heroines, saints. They are martyrs. Those who suck it up from their husbands, from the society… Martyrs of their own bodies, desires, senses, feelings. Sometimes even their own souls, sometimes they loose themselves. These girls are the redemptoresses. If there were more women like this the world would be a better place.
But those who cannot handle this multi-burden, cannot be condemned. God wants us to be saints but will not force. Silently expects, has set an example, but does not coldly assert it. Look, he brings sinners to heaven. Do you really expect him to take this sort of failure to cope as some sort of a mortal deadly sin? I don’t think so. Surely, no one knows God’s mind. But if I ever get to judge a weak woman I will advocate to God to say to her “Hey, just don’t worry about it.” I will plead him to open his arms and give her everything she has ever desired and never got. I am pretty sure whoever stops worrying about it then, will not worry about it again - for the whole eternity.

Was this was Jesus was scribbling with his finger into the sand when he faced the “adulterous” woman? Or did he write who/where is the adulterous man?
Wasn’t Jesus full of this kind of tact and pure politeness to the THIRSTY woman with 5 “husbands”?

But if a man masturbates, that usually means only one thing: He is after just one thing. A one thing that surely can be overcome, replaced, transformed, handled, offered up - it’s just one thing, for God’s sake! It does not touch his all being. The body tells you - it touches only one part of the body, compared to the multitude of the parts and places and ways on the woman’s body. And what is this one thing? The pleasure? The pride / ego? The fulfilment?
Men have their pains too, but they usually go faster. The desire to create, give, leave something behind, achieve, make someone happy etc. And yes, also to feel good. All legitimate. The good feeling is usually shorter than that of the women. The many factors are also there but in much less quantity and quality. They have much better ability to recover and move on. Ability to suppress, to be firm in priorities. This is where they have been given more and more will be expected of them.

So there is a difference. A moral one too.

What does this even mean?

 

[milos7]

What does this even mean?

Exactly!!

(by the way, you should stop calling yourself angry because you clearly are not. Otherwise you wouldn’t be posting in such patience and you wouldn’t have a computer either. And you should also stop calling yourself an atheist too. You know it’s not true. You are deeply longing for the Ultimate (truth, life, whatever …)