Is there a Multiverse?

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Can anyone give an opinion, or argument, in favor, or against the existence of a ‘Multiverse’? It is something like every possibility (of which there are an infinite number), being realized- like every potential becoming act? If God is ‘actus purus’ does it follow that the Universe of His creation must also be ‘fully actuated’? Does an infinite Creator, imply an infinity universe?

What are the arguments in its favor (or against)? Is every possibility taking place, simultaneously? In one moment, I might chose to do X, but in other universes, I am doing A, B, C, D, etc. Every second involves infinite possibility, every choice has a thousand possibilities in potential, carried out in new universes, an infinite number born for every single option. Then nothing can matters- in the constantly fluctuating nothingness of endless space and time, every possibility realised simultaneously, an empty cosmos of abstract mathematical structures, beyond the mind of man…Everything that could be, is…Omnis in potentia, fit in actu. Omnes sint, sunt.

Is it real? Is there a Multiverse?

Is this kind of ‘science’ real, or is it just ‘science fiction’?
 
A somewhat philosophical argument is that it makes the “fine-tuning” of physical constants unnecessary. If there are infinitely many universes in which the physical constants of each universe assume random values, there will inevitably be some universes in which those physical constants are within the range that makes life possible.

Personally I wouldn’t use such an argument though. For one thing, I think the fine-tuning problem is really a non-issue, because I disagree with its premise; namely, that life is somehow more special than other phenomena that may arise if our physical constants were different.
 
Oreoracle, perhaps an example might help elucidate why life is special in the fine-tuning argument. Consider the following: you are playing a card game with your friend who is somewhat a shady character and even though you are the dealer and shuffle the deck well every single time, somehow your friend happens to get a royal flush every single turn. You have two possible conclusions: either luck has been extremely kind to your friend, or that he is cheating and is hiding some cards up his sleeves.

Its no different with life. Life is special because we can think of a better reason why life exists than to leave it up to random chance–namely that life was created by some super a calculating agent.

In the interest of not derailing this thread, I will say that it might be nearly impossible to scientifically determine that there are other universes ‘nearby’. The example you give of all possibilities being realized falls under the Everett interpretation of measurement in quantum mechanics, where the universe is continually branching into all possible states at the quantum level. That these branches are distinct is a reason to discard the hope of ever trying to detect another. There is also a notion that the multiverse might exist in a higher dimension outside our universe. However, this too encounters some difficulties. How can we hope to detect something outside of the universe, which is to say outside of our observable universe? If you are clever, maybe you postulate that gravity is leaking in from another universe, and that is why it is so weak. How do you verify this to any degree of certitude? Maybe our universe was created in a big collision of two other universes, but again, how could you identify the fingerprints left on our universe? No, it may not be possible to verify the multiverse scientifically.

edit: most of these ideas I found in pop sci writer Brian Greene’s “The Fabric of the Cosmos” or “The Elegant Universe”. I imagine his more recent book “The Hidden Reality” might be more relevant than the previous two, but I haven’t read it.
 
It is a construct, the atheist escape clause if you will. Physicists admit the multiverse could never be observed.

In any case, one still has to ask where the multiverse came from? It only pushes the question back.
 
Nihilist said:
Can anyone give an opinion, or argument, in favor, or against the existence of a ‘Multiverse’?
Click to expand...
There are some possible indications of the existence of the multiverse: ‘Multiverse’ theory suggested by microwave background.
Is this kind of ‘science’ real, or is it just ‘science fiction’?
Click to expand...
It is very heavy duty cosmology. It is real science, but it is also very close to science fiction: The universe according to Nietzsche: Modern cosmology and the theory of eternal recurrence.

Cosmology is one of those areas of science where there are more hypotheses than there is data available to weed out the incorrect hypotheses.

rossum
 
Redeemed92 said:
Oreoracle, perhaps an example might help elucidate why life is special in the fine-tuning argument. Consider the following: you are playing a card game with your friend who is somewhat a shady character and even though you are the dealer and shuffle the deck well every single time, somehow your friend happens to get a royal flush every single turn. You have two possible conclusions: either luck has been extremely kind to your friend, or that he is cheating and is hiding some cards up his sleeves.
Click to expand...
The problem with this analogy is that card games have rules, and these rules make some hands more likely to lead to wins than other hands. Thus, if we are judging hands by how conducive they are to victory, a royal flush is special. Without conditions that tell us when we can win, every possible hand is equally unlikely, so each one would be considered equally “special” from a statistical point of view. That would make the word “special” a misnomer, because if everything is special, then nothing is special.

There is no analogous concept of “winning” in the universe. Thus the criteria that we could use for determining importance are debatable. To go back to the poker analogy, I could argue that my pair of 2’s is just as special as your pair of 3’s since both are equally likely to occur. It is only when rules are in place that dictate that higher numbers are better than lower numbers that we can decide which of our hands is more special. Since the rules are arbitrary (we could just as easily decide that lower numbers are better), there seems to be no way to decide that life is better than non-living phenomena without implicitly assuming it.
 
Nihilist said:
Is it real? Is there a Multiverse?

Is this kind of ‘science’ real, or is it just ‘science fiction’?
Click to expand...
If every possibility is an inevitability, then there effectively are multiple copies of you.
Some evil, some good.
Which one stands judgement? Do all?

God made each of us, just once.

And as good or bad as you may be, rest assured you are the only you at it.

We all stand judgement for our actions.
 
Nihilist said:
Can anyone give an opinion, or argument, in favor, or against the existence of a ‘Multiverse’? It is something like every possibility (of which there are an infinite number), being realized- like every potential becoming act? If God is ‘actus purus’ does it follow that the Universe of His creation must also be ‘fully actuated’? Does an infinite Creator, imply an infinity universe?

What are the arguments in its favor (or against)? Is every possibility taking place, simultaneously? In one moment, I might chose to do X, but in other universes, I am doing A, B, C, D, etc. Every second involves infinite possibility, every choice has a thousand possibilities in potential, carried out in new universes, an infinite number born for every single option. Then nothing can matters- in the constantly fluctuating nothingness of endless space and time, every possibility realised simultaneously, an empty cosmos of abstract mathematical structures, beyond the mind of man…Everything that could be, is…Omnis in potentia, fit in actu. Omnes sint, sunt.

Is it real? Is there a Multiverse?

Is this kind of ‘science’ real, or is it just ‘science fiction’?
Click to expand...
God created a universe that actually exists. He is not now creating something new, out of nothing, in time, to be added to this universe. Did he create other universes? We will never know. So don’t worry about it. You are responsible for what you do here and now, not in some hypothetical universe.

Linus2nd
 
I have a PhD in physics. There seems to be now the possibility of a multiverse which we may not be able to observe but could detect the presence of through its gravitational influence, for example.

However, given that, there would be an infinite number of them and there would still be “room for an infinite number more” so the idea of the mulitverse, in my opinion is not contrary to the faith, unless, as some scientists have done, you try to use it to prove the non existance of God.

When I teach physics classes, I am often asked if I believe in God. I answer that I do and that since there is “infinity” outside our universe, that leaves plenty of room for God. So my advise to believers on this subject is “Don’t worry about it.” There is no way to crowd God out of his creation.
 
latinloverJOMO said:
I have a PhD in physics. There seems to be now the possibility of a multiverse which we may not be able to observe but could detect the presence of through its gravitational influence, for example.

However, given that, there would be an infinite number of them and there would still be “room for an infinite number more” so the idea of the mulitverse, in my opinion is not contrary to the faith, unless, as some scientists have done, you try to use it to prove the non existance of God.

When I teach physics classes, I am often asked if I believe in God. I answer that I do and that since there is “infinity” outside our universe, that leaves plenty of room for God. So my advise to believers on this subject is “Don’t worry about it.” There is no way to crowd God out of his creation.
Click to expand...
However this is a separate thing from what is actually described in the original post.
 
rossum said:
There are some possible indications of the existence of the multiverse: ‘Multiverse’ theory suggested by microwave background.

It is very heavy duty cosmology. It is real science, but it is also very close to science fiction: The universe according to Nietzsche: Modern cosmology and the theory of eternal recurrence.

Cosmology is one of those areas of science where there are more hypotheses than there is data available to weed out the incorrect hypotheses.

rossum
Click to expand...
I don’t see why not. To my knowledge the R(name removed by moderator)oches teach this could be. And Tilopa and Naropa would certainly be the ones who would know. I don’t put a lot of credence in modern physics.
 
Cosmology and Astronomy, unlike other types of science, tend to be wide open. You can write a theory on just about anything and it will be published. Of any science, it involves the most speculation since we know the least about it (it is not directly observable because everything is too far away.)

I don’t tend to accept Multiverse theories as anything more than grand speculation. But it does feed the publish or parish machine.
 
Oreo,

Is a world in which someone thinks logically more remarkable than a world in which no one thinks logically?
 
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