Is there more than one kind of faith?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Asuno
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Asuno

Guest
It seems to me there is. There is the kind of faith that is intellectual and of the mind, and a greater kind of faith that is of the soul, or that springs from the heart of the soul, the spirit itself, the kind that “if you have faith (this second kind) the size of a mustard seed, you could command a mountain to be cast into the sea and it would be done”. This second kind must be very rare, and perhaps hard to cultivate (though perhaps ‘cultivate’ isn’t the right word, as faith is a gift; perhaps, like the first one, it must be given).

Any thoughts, any one?
 
Asuno said:
It seems to me there is. There is the kind of faith that is intellectual and of the mind, and a greater kind of faith that is of the soul, or that springs from the heart of the soul, the spirit itself, the kind that “if you have faith (this second kind) the size of a mustard seed, you could command a mountain to be cast into the sea and it would be done”. This second kind must be very rare, and perhaps hard to cultivate (though perhaps ‘cultivate’ isn’t the right word, as faith is a gift; perhaps, like the first one, it must be given).

Any thoughts, any one?
Click to expand...
As soon as someone exhibits the occurrence of a mountain moved by faith alone, I will abandon my atheism. Anyone willing to demonstrate?
 
ateista said:
As soon as someone exhibits the occurrence of a mountain moved by faith alone, I will abandon my atheism. Anyone willing to demonstrate?
Click to expand...
I guess I should clarify something.:nope:

As you have no faith of any kind at all, you’re hardly qualified to have any opinion in this matter whatsoever. Morover, having read some of your rantings today in other threads, I think you would not abandon atheism even if that mountain was dropped right in front of you.😦 Besides, I believe I did say such faith was rare, right? Perhaps even exceedingly so. Finally, any opinion you have in this matter at the least irrelevant, and at the most, unwanted. So do us both a favor, and stay out of this thread. This question is for believers, not you nor any like you. And yes, I’m being rude. Nothing short of a blunt object would make an impression on you anyway, however, and as you are intent on being hostile and disruptive to these forums, I see no reason to put up with you. So stay out of this. This is where I come for meaningful dialouge, not inane tripe. Too often I have seen the moderators allow this kind of thing go on unchallenged, but frankly, I don’t have the patience they do.:mad:
 
Asuno said:
I guess I should clarify something.:nope:

As you have no faith of any kind at all, you’re hardly qualified to have any opinion in this matter whatsoever. Morover, having read some of your rantings today in other threads, I think you would not abandon atheism even if that mountain was dropped right in front of you.😦 Besides, I believe I did say such faith was rare, right? Perhaps even exceedingly so. Finally, any opinion you have in this matter at the least irrelevant, and at the most, unwanted. So do us both a favor, and stay out of this thread. This question is for believers, not you nor any like you. And yes, I’m being rude. Nothing short of a blunt object would make an impression on you anyway, however, and as you are intent on being hostile and disruptive to these forums, I see no reason to put up with you. So stay out of this. This is where I come for meaningful dialouge, not inane tripe. Too often I have seen the moderators allow this kind of thing go on unchallenged, but frankly, I don’t have the patience they do.:mad:
Click to expand...
What else can I do but respect your opinion and comply? I only wish you you would not question my sincerity… but if you choose to do so, that is your prerogative. Best wishes to you.
 
ateista said:
What else can I do but respect your opinion and comply? I only wish you you would not question my sincerity… but if you choose to do so, that is your prerogative. Best wishes to you.
Click to expand...
I honestly wish I could believe Ateista is being sincere. I really do. But the painful truth is, I’ve yet to meet an atheist who was. The only sincerity I have ever encountered with them is a sincere contempt for my beliefs. If I thought for one instant that one was truly seeking an honest dialouge and not merely an oppurtunity to attack my beliefs, then I would gladly engage in the dialouge. But that has never happened. Not once, in the forty-five years of my entire life. Perhaps I was too harsh, but I’m tired of being their punching bag, verbally speaking as well as physical…yes, that did happen to me when I was in college, years ago. I was literally attacked for my faith, and I never forgot it…nor, apparently, forgave it, in the deep recesses of my heart.

But on the off-chance that maybe Ateista is sincere, I apologize.:console: I also apologize to you, the other readers for my outburst.

Now, seriously, this is a question I’ve asked before straight to the apologists, but it was never answered. I understand they get a lot of questions, however, and can’t answer all of them. That’s why I have decided to ask you, the readers, if any of you know the answer to my question.

I’m not saying there is more than one kind of faith, I’m saying there seems to be, and I’m asking, is there? Or is it just one kind, but different levels?
 
Asuno said:
I honestly wish I could believe Ateista is being sincere. I really do. But the painful truth is, I’ve yet to meet an atheist who was. The only sincerity I have ever encountered with them is a sincere contempt for my beliefs. If I thought for one instant that one was truly seeking an honest dialouge and not merely an oppurtunity to attack my beliefs, then I would gladly engage in the dialouge. But that has never happened. Not once, in the forty-five years of my entire life. Perhaps I was too harsh, but I’m tired of being their punching bag, verbally speaking as well as physical…yes, that did happen to me when I was in college, years ago. I was literally attacked for my faith, and I never forgot it…nor, apparently, forgave it, in the deep recesses of my heart.

But on the off-chance that maybe Ateista is sincere, I apologize.:console: I also apologize to you, the other readers for my outburst.

Now, seriously, this is a question I’ve asked before straight to the apologists, but it was never answered. I understand they get a lot of questions, however, and can’t answer all of them. That’s why I have decided to ask you, the readers, if any of you know the answer to my question.

I’m not saying there is more than one kind of faith, I’m saying there seems to be, and I’m asking, is there? Or is it just one kind, but different levels?
Click to expand...
As we exchanged a few words in a private conversation, I would like to extend a freindly handshake to you. I did not intend to hurt you, and if I inadvertantly did, I would like to apologize. Our disagreement does not indicate a hostility. Despite it we can respect each other.

My best wishes to you, honestly and sincerely! Since I am not an apologist, I cannot answer your question. I do belive that there are many different levels of faith, however. I doubt that my understanding would be beneficial to you.

👍
 
There are two kinds as people say:
  1. I have faith in you.
  2. I have faith in God.
 
Asuno said:
It seems to me there is. There is the kind of faith that is intellectual and of the mind, and a greater kind of faith that is of the soul, or that springs from the heart of the soul, the spirit itself, the kind that “if you have faith (this second kind) the size of a mustard seed, you could command a mountain to be cast into the sea and it would be done”. This second kind must be very rare, and perhaps hard to cultivate (though perhaps ‘cultivate’ isn’t the right word, as faith is a gift; perhaps, like the first one, it must be given).

Any thoughts, any one?
Click to expand...
I like the way you’ve described faith. I feel that I have a bit of the second kind, and almost none of the first kind. I’m not Catholic yet, but the second kind of faith is kind of waking up in me, so now I have to go investigate the Church so I can build the first kind of faith.

It seems to me that having the first kind of faith without the second must be like when you’re going through a spiritual dry spell and you don’t feel like God is listening. I heard Mother Teresa went through years like that. And the second kind of faith without the first is like a child’s faith - you can’t defend it, you just know it.

Well, that’s what I think, anyway.
 
Just_wondering said:
I like the way you’ve described faith. I feel that I have a bit of the second kind, and almost none of the first kind. I’m not Catholic yet, but the second kind of faith is kind of waking up in me, so now I have to go investigate the Church so I can build the first kind of faith.

It seems to me that having the first kind of faith without the second must be like when you’re going through a spiritual dry spell and you don’t feel like God is listening. I heard Mother Teresa went through years like that. And the second kind of faith without the first is like a child’s faith - you can’t defend it, you just know it.

Well, that’s what I think, anyway.
Click to expand...
That sounds right to me. Maybe that’s why we survive childhood–you know, when we do all those extraordinarily crazy things as kids and yet emerge from almost unscathed. Like when babies fall out of four story building windows and yet come away completely unharmed. Or like the time when I was nine and took Tanker’s Hill on my bike in what should have been pure suicide, but I believed I could do it. Of course, that might have been dumb luck, but then again, maybe what we believe makes our luck.

I’ll rephrase that; maybe what we believe and how we think creates the phenomenon we call luck!:newidea:

Maybe that’s what that old saying “I make my own luck” means. Of course, that would mean that every time bad luck happens to us, it’s our own fault, because we’re the ones that made it. That could be why Jesus cautions us about thought, too. I never thought of this before.
 
Asuno said:
It seems to me there is. There is the kind of faith that is intellectual and of the mind, and a greater kind of faith that is of the soul, or that springs from the heart of the soul, the spirit itself, the kind that "if you have faith (this second kind) the size of a mustard seed
Click to expand...
This is not two kinds of faith but rather, belief and faith.

Belief is of the intellect.

Faith is a gift from God. It is the revelation of Himself to us, however that may happen. It is faith where we are touched by his love and from then on, burn with hunger, to be united with God. It is through faith that we die to ourselves, and are born again into new life with Christ.

Belief does not give you this. Even Satan believes in God.

Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top