Is there value in opinions or is fact-based knowledge supreme

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Just wondering why people have opinions contrary to what statistics or odds say is fact…? If facts are superior over opinion, then why not change opinions based on facts? Because it seems common that people ignore facts and favor opinions… Maybe there’s something to be said for opinions. 🤷

…what kind of a world would we live in if everyone were bound to facts and people abandoned their opinions? Does progressivism view this as being the future of humanity?
 
TEPO said:
Just wondering why people have opinions contrary to what statistics or odds say is fact…? If facts are superior over opinion, then why not change opinions based on facts? Because it seems common that people ignore facts and favor opinions… Maybe there’s something to be said for opinions. 🤷

…what kind of a world would we live in if everyone were bound to facts and people abandoned their opinions? Does progressivism view this as being the future of humanity?
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The problem with certain facts is that they change when new discoveries are made. In part because of this, people feel justified in sticking with their opinions and not trusting so-called facts. Another reason why people stay with their opinions is that they may have an “agenda” (now, there’s a word that many CAF’ers are familiar with), and the facts just get in the way of forging that agenda. People’s opinions themselves are the result of many influences: culture, family upbringing, personal experience, intuition, common sense, and so on. These influences that helped shape people’s opinions are not so easily displaced by facts.
 
meltzerboy said:
The problem with certain facts is that they change when new discoveries are made. In part because of this, people feel justified in sticking with their opinions and not trusting so-called facts. Another reason why people stay with their opinions is that they may have an “agenda” (now, there’s a word that many CAF’ers are familiar with), and the facts just get in the way of forging that agenda. People’s opinions themselves are the result of many influences: culture, family upbringing, personal experience, intuition, common sense, and so on. These influences that helped shape people’s opinions are not so easily displaced by facts.
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Not sure what you mean by ‘facts’?!

The sun rises in the East. That’s a fact. That doesn’t change (unless you are a philosopher - they will tell you that you’re relying on induction). But our interpretation of that fact has changed.

Another example: if you drop a stone it falls to the ground. Aristotle has a teleological interpretation, Newton says it’s gravity pulling it down and Einstein’s theory tells us that space is pushing the stone down because space is curved around a massive object (earth). The fact hasn’t changed, but the theories to explain that fact have been refined.
 
Hans_W said:
Not sure what you mean by ‘facts’?!

The sun rises in the East. That’s a fact. That doesn’t change (unless you are a philosopher - they will tell you that you’re relying on induction). But our interpretation of that fact has changed.

Another example: if you drop a stone it falls to the ground. Aristotle has a teleological interpretation, Newton says it’s gravity pulling it down and Einstein’s theory tells us that space is pushing the stone down because space is curved around a massive object (earth). The fact hasn’t changed, but the theories to explain that fact have been refined.
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That is a very important task, to understand what we mean with the word fact and with the word opinion.

From my part based on my idea what I call intelligent thinking grounded on logic and facts:

First we have to distinguish whether we are dealing with ideas in our mind only, or with things in objective reality outside our mind.

An opinion is predominantly concerned with things in our mind, while a fact is concerned with objective reality outside and independent of our mind.

So if there is no mind namely no humans around at all as was the situation prior to the appearance of mankind in the objective universe, there were facts like a in the case of a pebble rolling downward from a higher point in the slope of a hill to a lower point when no obstacle is obstructing its rolling downward.

That is an example of a fact.

What about an example of an opinion?

Ask yourself first, where is the opinion? It is in our mind, then we express it to fellow humans to get them to agree with our opinion, or work with us to ascertain that the concurred on opinion in our minds corresponds to something in objective reality.

Here is an example of an opinion, that there is a force at the foot of the hill pulling the pebble to roll downward when nothing is obstructing it from rolling downward.

What is the question of the OP?

quote ]

Today, 11:07 am
#1​
TEPO Religion: post-modern tribal Catholic

**Is there value in opinions or is fact-based knowledge supreme
**

Just wondering why people have opinions contrary to what statistics or odds say is fact…? If facts are superior over opinion, then why not change opinions based on facts? Because it seems common that people ignore facts and favor opinions… Maybe there’s something to be said for opinions.

…what kind of a world would we live in if everyone were bound to facts and people abandoned their opinions? Does progressivism view this as being the future of humanity?

/quote ]

…what kind of a world would we live in if everyone were bound to facts and people abandoned their opinions? Does progressivism view this as being the future of humanity?
​

Answer: People who are accustomed to and skillful with thinking intelligently grounded on logic and facts must educate others to do likewise: so that opinions will be more and better founded on facts than the opposite, otherwise mankind will be existing in an unrealistic world and that is a recipe for disaster.

Now, dear readers here, I recall this saying in Latin:

Contra factum non est argumentum.

Translation:
Against the fact there is no argument.

Example: when you have to go to the bathroom pronto, you cannot argue your way out of this natural urgency.

KingCoil
 
KingCoil said:
That is a very important task, to understand what we mean with the word fact and with the word opinion.

From my part based on my idea what I call intelligent thinking grounded on logic and facts:

First we have to distinguish whether we are dealing with ideas in our mind only, or with things in objective reality outside our mind.

An opinion is predominantly concerned with things in our mind, while a fact is concerned with objective reality outside and independent of our mind.

So if there is no mind namely no humans around at all as was the situation prior to the appearance of mankind in the objective universe, there were facts like a in the case of a pebble rolling downward from a higher point in the slope of a hill to a lower point when no obstacle is obstructing its rolling downward.

That is an example of a fact.

What about an example of an opinion?

Ask yourself first, where is the opinion? It is in our mind, then we express it to fellow humans to get them to agree with our opinion, or work with us to ascertain that the concurred on opinion in our minds corresponds to something in objective reality.

Here is an example of an opinion, that there is a force at the foot of the hill pulling the pebble to roll downward when nothing is obstructing it from rolling downward.

What is the question of the OP?

quote ]

Today, 11:07 am
#1​
TEPO Religion: post-modern tribal Catholic

**Is there value in opinions or is fact-based knowledge supreme
**

Just wondering why people have opinions contrary to what statistics or odds say is fact…? If facts are superior over opinion, then why not change opinions based on facts? Because it seems common that people ignore facts and favor opinions… Maybe there’s something to be said for opinions.

…what kind of a world would we live in if everyone were bound to facts and people abandoned their opinions? Does progressivism view this as being the future of humanity?

/quote ]

…what kind of a world would we live in if everyone were bound to facts and people abandoned their opinions? Does progressivism view this as being the future of humanity?
​

Answer: People who are accustomed to and skillful with thinking intelligently grounded on logic and facts must educate others to do likewise: so that opinions will be more and better founded on facts than the opposite, otherwise mankind will be existing in an unrealistic world and that is a recipe for disaster.

Now, dear readers here, I recall this saying in Latin:

Contra factum non est argumentum.

Translation:
Against the fact there is no argument.

Example: when you have to go to the bathroom pronto, you cannot argue your way out of this natural urgency.

KingCoil
Click to expand...
This uniquely ‘human’ ability to have an opinion -is it possible that humans possess the power to turn opinion into fact?

For instance, at one point a human had an opinion that a written constitution would make a good form of government, so he organized the first constitutional republic. Therefore it is now a Fact that democracy exists, but only because this particular human created it -for prior to his creating it, it was not a fact. Is this correct -that humans can “create” fact due to their ability to have opinions…?
 
…so if humans have the ability to create facts by utilizing their ability to have an opinion, then opinions create facts… But posters here seem to be suggesting that fact created opinion.

IMHO, I believe that opinions are greater than facts.
 
TEPO said:
…so if humans have the ability to create facts by utilizing their ability to have an opinion, then opinions create facts… But posters here seem to be suggesting that fact created opinion.

IMHO, I believe that opinions are greater than facts.
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If a fact is that which is real. Then, how can an opinion that misinterprets that fact, be considered greater?

We have a both/and situation.
  1. Some facts lead to opinions
  2. Some opinions lead to the development of some facts.
 
davidv said:
If a fact is that which is real. Then, how can an opinion that misinterprets that fact, be considered greater?

We have a both/and situation.
  1. Some facts lead to opinions
  2. Some opinions lead to the development of some facts.
Click to expand...
Once man created the constitution by manipulating the elements and turned the ink and tree-paper into a new physical object, it became real.

…and this special ability to create is greater than that which just is. In essence, opinions represent life itself. Where facts are life’s tools to play with and manipulate as well as life’s resistance.

(Opinions are not necessarily always wrong. Sometimes our opinions are later revealed to be fact -before we knew it was a fact… Like a hunch can form an opinion)
 
TEPO said:
Once man created the constitution by manipulating the elements and turned the ink and tree-paper into a new physical object, it became real.

…and this special ability to create is greater than that which just is. In essence, opinions represent life itself. Where facts are life’s tools to play with and manipulate as well as life’s resistance.

(Opinions are not necessarily always wrong. Sometimes our opinions are later revealed to be fact -before we knew it was a fact… Like a hunch can form an opinion)
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Are false opinions of equal value to true opinions? If not, then the statement that opinions are greater than facts is not universally true. Correct?
 
The point is that it was someones opinion that a written constitution would be more effective than a monarchy, however there were no facts to prove it… But the existence of a written constitution became a real fact due to one mans opinion. Thus opinions represent life, change and creation.
 
davidv said:
Are false opinions of equal value to true opinions? If not, then the statement that opinions are greater than facts is not universally true. Correct?
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False opinions might represent life’s willingness to create change as well as it may represent life’s will to manipulate facts in order to create something new. If so, then false opinions may be more interesting (or valuable) than we may have thought.

…like it takes hundreds of thousands of years for diamonds to form, humankind’s ability to form his own opinion may be just as valuable as life’s manifestation all spelled out.
 
Opinions don,t create facts. Fact are objective external to the mind Opinion may or may not be in agreement with objective fact If something is created by opinion and it turns out to be fact then you can be assured that the opinion coincided with fact, and not fact coincided with opinion. It like you can’t have fiction without non-fiction because everything in fiction is some way is derived from non-fiction. Facts are superior to opinion, for opinions are derived from facts, and opinions may or may not be. Facts have objective reality, any thing that has the certainty of fact is superior to that which may or may not have certainty. of the truth which is opinion

Some people treat opinion as fact, we see that in in empirical and materialistic thinking,theories eg. Opinions have value as long as they are treated as opinions and not facts until verified
 
TEPO said:
Just wondering why people have opinions contrary to what statistics or odds say is fact…? If facts are superior over opinion, then why not change opinions based on facts? Because it seems common that people ignore facts and favor opinions… Maybe there’s something to be said for opinions. 🤷

…what kind of a world would we live in if everyone were bound to facts and people abandoned their opinions? Does progressivism view this as being the future of humanity?
Click to expand...
They are different since fact is an indisputable entity which is common between individuals and opinion is an interpretation of a fact which could be different. We however need opinion on a fact and our opinion could only converge to one when different facts are explained within the same opinion.
 
Here is my post where I mentioned “Contra factum non est argumentum.”
KingCoil said:
That is a very important task, to understand what we mean with the word fact and with the word opinion.

From my part based on my idea what I call intelligent thinking grounded on logic and facts:

First we have to distinguish whether we are dealing with ideas in our mind only, or with things in objective reality outside our mind.

An opinion is predominantly concerned with things in our mind, while a fact is concerned with objective reality outside and independent of our mind.

So if there is no mind namely no humans around at all as was the situation prior to the appearance of mankind in the objective universe, there were facts like a in the case of a pebble rolling downward from a higher point in the slope of a hill to a lower point when no obstacle is obstructing its rolling downward.

That is an example of a fact.

What about an example of an opinion?

Ask yourself first, where is the opinion? It is in our mind, then we express it to fellow humans to get them to agree with our opinion, or work with us to ascertain that the concurred on opinion in our minds corresponds to something in objective reality.

Here is an example of an opinion, that there is a force at the foot of the hill pulling the pebble to roll downward when nothing is obstructing it from rolling downward.

What is the question of the OP?

quote ]

Today, 11:07 am
#1​
TEPO Religion: post-modern tribal Catholic

**Is there value in opinions or is fact-based knowledge supreme
**

Just wondering why people have opinions contrary to what statistics or odds say is fact…? If facts are superior over opinion, then why not change opinions based on facts? Because it seems common that people ignore facts and favor opinions… Maybe there’s something to be said for opinions.

…what kind of a world would we live in if everyone were bound to facts and people abandoned their opinions? Does progressivism view this as being the future of humanity?

/quote ]

…what kind of a world would we live in if everyone were bound to facts and people abandoned their opinions? Does progressivism view this as being the future of humanity?
​

Answer: People who are accustomed to and skillful with thinking intelligently grounded on logic and facts must educate others to do likewise: so that opinions will be more and better founded on facts than the opposite, otherwise mankind will be existing in an unrealistic world and that is a recipe for disaster.

Now, dear readers here, I recall this saying in Latin:

Contra factum non est argumentum.

Translation:
Against the fact there is no argument.

Example: when you have to go to the bathroom pronto, you cannot argue your way out of this natural urgency.

KingCoil
Click to expand...
 
And here is the screenshot of the post above which gives you the whole context of the post without anything left out:

Part one Contra factum ]

Part two Contra factum ]


Forgive me readers, but I just love to toy around with image softwares which are free to use, and enjoy.

KingCoil
 
Opinions,if they are acknowledged as such, can help drive discussion. Discussion can lead to more viable theories that may eventually yield facts. So they all play a role, in my opinion, but for me, factual knowledge is supreme.
 
Please disregard my two posts above, they are placed in the wrong location here, they should go to my thread on Wanted posters to talk on intelligent…

Sorry.

KingCoil
 
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