Is this a bogus quote by Pope Paul V?

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At a protestant forum, a new poster has the following as his signature line:

"Pope Paul V of Rome asked a rhetorical question to the Venetian ambassador, “Do you not know that so much reading of the Scripture ruins the Catholic faith.”’- The Reformation: A History

Has anyone ever heard of this?

Another Catholic asked him about the source. He said he didn’t remember the author but that it was “an amazing quote.” I looked up the author, an Anglican history professor at Oxford:

amazon.com/Reformation-History-Diarmaid-MacCulloch/dp/0670032964

I asked the guy if the author footnoted or referenced the quote at all because I would be interested in reading about it. I told him it sounded like a forgery or a fraudulent legend. He replied that he would look it up and get back to me. I’m still waiting…not surprised. I doubt if he has the book, or has read it. He probably just saw the quote somewhere. Lots of times a Catholic can find out about hoaxes and bogus quotes, but I have struck out on this one. Can anyone help?
 
Brian Crane posted:
Pope Paul V of Rome asked a rhetorical question to the Venetian ambassador, “Do you not know that so much reading of the Scripture ruins the Catholic faith.”’- The Reformation: A History
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Has anyone ever heard of this?
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NO!
 
That’s a new one to me. It does resemble greatly certain hoaxes and theatre productions supporting the Reformation. Pope Paul V was involved with implementing the Council of Trent, which had some major decrees concerning Holy Scripture–it doesn’t sound like something he would be saying.🤷
 
Sounds very bogus and very uncharitable for that individual to pass around a supposed quote with out caring if it’s the truth.
 
I don’t know if it is authentic or not.

If it is authentic, what I think he means is that people reading and interpreting the Bible on their own w/o reference to tradition and the Magisterium (a la the “reformers”) destroys people Catholic faith.

God Bless
 
tdgesq said:
You can see the quote here on pages 393-394.

amazon.com/gp/reader/0670032964/ref=sib_dp_pop_cr/105-8875263-9539652?ie=UTF8&p=S00A#

It references as it’s source in the notes a work called,La Bibbia Al Rogo: la censura ecclesiastica e i volgarizzamenti della Scrittura, by a person named Gigliola Fragnito. An Italian professor of modern history from what I can make out. I wish I could see the original source for the quote from Fragnito’s book.
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Thank you very much! I read the pages. Actually it was pages 407-408 when I clicked on the link. The quote (which I still think is bogus) as bilop said, was in the context of the “Roman Index Ban” which forbade vernacular bibles in Italy. The author was saying that the Church, and Pope Paul V, feared vernacular bibles. The author also said that the Church couldn’t ban vernacular bibles in protestant areas but Italy had little of this pressure at the time.

Does anyone know much about the ban on vernacular bibles in Italy during the early 17th century?
 
Brian_Crane said:
Thank you very much! I read the pages. Actually it was pages 407-408 when I clicked on the link. The quote (which I still think is bogus) as bilop said, was in the context of the “Roman Index Ban” which forbade vernacular bibles in Italy. The author was saying that the Church, and Pope Paul V, feared vernacular bibles. The author also said that the Church couldn’t ban vernacular bibles in protestant areas but Italy had little of this pressure at the time.

Does anyone know much about the ban on vernacular bibles in Italy during the early 17th century?
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I can’t say that I have particular knowledge at hand, but I do know that on occasion the reading of certain translations into the vernacular were banned. It was not always the Church who banned them. Henry VIII did on at least one occasion. Usually the “devil” was in the poor translation or in the notes appended.
 
Brian_Crane said:
At a protestant forum, a new poster has the following as his signature line:

"Pope Paul V of Rome asked a rhetorical question to the Venetian ambassador, “Do you not know that so much reading of the Scripture ruins the Catholic faith.”’- The Reformation: A History

Has anyone ever heard of this?

Another Catholic asked him about the source. He said he didn’t remember the author but that it was “an amazing quote.” I looked up the author, an Anglican history professor at Oxford:
Click to expand...
What especially makes this seem bogus to me is that it appears to be something the Pope SAID - not something he wrote. When and why was it written down - or has it been handed on thru the years by word of mouth? :confused:

Nita
 
Is it true that his Holiness said ‘haggis makers are the least in the Kingdom of Heaven?’

What is this thread all about? 😛
 
Brian_Crane said:
…
Does anyone know much about the ban on vernacular bibles in Italy during the early 17th century?
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What I do know is that there were unofficial translations of the bible in the vernacular. They were mostly poorly done to the point of changing the meaning.

If the Pope did make the remark, my bet is that he was talking about the objection to people reading bibles that were distortions and then claiming that they knew scripture.
Or perhaps he would have been referring to the protestant-like attention to scripture above and instead of all else.

As someone else mentioned, Henry VIII outlawed bibles (all bibles) in private possession at one time. At first he encourage everyone to have and read the bible. But so many disagreements adn bar fights broke out over people’s differences of opinion that he banned the private possession of bibles.
 
Brian_Crane said:
At a protestant forum, a new poster has the following as his signature line:

"Pope Paul V of Rome asked a rhetorical question to the Venetian ambassador, “Do you not know that so much reading of the Scripture ruins the Catholic faith.”’- The Reformation: A History

Has anyone ever heard of this?

Another Catholic asked him about the source. He said he didn’t remember the author but that it was “an amazing quote.” I looked up the author, an Anglican history professor at Oxford:

amazon.com/Reformation-History-Diarmaid-MacCulloch/dp/0670032964

I asked the guy if the author footnoted or referenced the quote at all because I would be interested in reading about it. I told him it sounded like a forgery or a fraudulent legend. He replied that he would look it up and get back to me. I’m still waiting…not surprised. I doubt if he has the book, or has read it. He probably just saw the quote somewhere. Lots of times a Catholic can find out about hoaxes and bogus quotes, but I have struck out on this one. Can anyone help?
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McCulloch is a perfectly reputable historian - it does not follow from the fact of the quotation’s presence in his work (if it is present), that he agrees with it.​

As for that quotation - something similar has been attributed to a group of Cardinals addressing Pope Pius III, asking him to ban the reading of the Bible for the reason in your quotation. ISTM that a quotation from who knows what source is being fathered on two different sets of speakers.
 
"Nita:
What especially makes this seem bogus to me is that it appears to be something the Pope SAID - not something he wrote. When and why was it written down - or has it been handed on thru the years by word of mouth? :confused:
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Very good point. I’m sure it is a distortion or legend of sorts, unfortunately passed on in some “scholarly” work. I encounter hoaxes and false/distorted quotes fairly often in my discussions on protestant forums, but I’d never run across this one.
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Sixtus:
Is it true that his Holiness said ‘haggis makers are the least in the Kingdom of Heaven?’

What is this thread all about? 😛
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Was that a dig? . If you don’t approve of this thread perhaps you could explain why. If I’m misunderstanding you, I apologize, but considering also your first response (a curt, “NO!”) it seems that way to me.

I dialogue with protestants every day on their turf (protestant message boards.) I continually try to clear up their misconceptions and ignorance of the Catholic Church. Its incredible what some people will believe about the Church. When I see them throw crazy quotes out there, or false accusations, I’d like to find out where it originated from, so that I can show it to be a fake, or a distortion. That’s what I’m attempting to do here. Sorry if you misinterpreted that for some reason.
BelFarfalla said:
What I do know is that there were unofficial translations of the bible in the vernacular. They were mostly poorly done to the point of changing the meaning.

If the Pope did make the remark, my bet is that he was talking about the objection to people reading bibles that were distortions and then claiming that they knew scripture.
Or perhaps he would have been referring to the protestant-like attention to scripture above and instead of all else.
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Of course. I understand all that. I guess I should have been more clear. I know that the few times certain bibles have been forbidden it was because of bad/subversive translations. I just wasn’t familiar with this certain episode in Italy.
 
Assuming that pope actually said that, exactly as written, in english, even, so what? The reading of scripture can ruin one’s Catholic faith-when read incorrectly. It does not follow that scripture is contrary to the Catholic faith.
 
“Gottle of Geer” said:
## McCulloch is a perfectly reputable historian - it does not follow from the fact of the quotation’s presence in his work (if it is present), that he agrees with it.
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I read it last night. It is present, and it certainly appears that he agrees with it.
Gottle of Geer:
As for that quotation - something similar has been attributed to a group of Cardinals addressing Pope Pius III, asking him to ban the reading of the Bible for the reason in your quotation. ISTM that a quotation from who knows what source is being fathered on two different sets of speakers.
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I have dealt with that one before. That’s a proven forgery. The subject of the thread may be a proven hoax as well. That’s what I’m trying to find out.
 
tdgesq said:
I wish I could see the original source for the quote from Fragnito’s book.
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From what I make out, La Bibbia Al Rogo apparently is regarded as a major book and won an award of some kind. I would guess that major universities might have it in their library or perhaps it would be accessible via interlibrary loan (if you are in the U.S.)

But you would probably have to be comfortable with the Italian language to dig out the quote and its source. :o
 
Dale_M said:
From what I make out, La Bibbia Al Rogo apparently is regarded as a major book and won an award of some kind. I would guess that major universities might have it in their library or perhaps it would be accessible via interlibrary loan (if you are in the U.S.)

But you would probably have to be comfortable with the Italian language to dig out the quote and its source. :o
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I wasn’t questioning the scholarly credentials of either author. Just trying to do a favor for someone who wanted to know where it came from. Of course now I am interested in knowing where the quote originally came from, just out of curiosity. The statement itself doesn’t bother me at all.
 
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