Is this a heresy?

[BarbaraTherese]

Hi Jasny…I really do respect your opinion while being unable to agree with it, and do not mean at all to be patronizing nor condescending but I think the theological insights from which you draw while not intrinsically wrong are dated and have now given way to new theological insights and underscored by Pope Benedict in 2006 in the Third Mellenium…taken from my quotation from Deus Caritas Est, this is a beautiful statement of human love for another and eros and love within marriage

And it is also at the one and same time a beautiful statement of celibate and chaste love of God and neighbour…and the genius and holiness I believe of Pope Benedict under the influence of The Holy Spirit:

"Yet eros and agape—ascending love and descending love—can never be completely separated. The more the two, in their different aspects, find a proper unity in the one reality of love, the more the true nature of love in general is realized. Even if eros is at first mainly covetous and ascending, a fascination for the great promise of happiness, in drawing near to the other, it is less and less concerned with itself, increasingly seeks the happiness of the other, is concerned more and more with the beloved, bestows itself and wants to “be there for” the other. The element of agape thus enters into this love, for otherwise eros is impoverished and even loses its own nature.* On the other hand, man cannot live by oblative, descending love alone. *He cannot always give, he must also receive. Anyone who wishes to give love must also receive love as a gift. Certainly, as the Lord tells us, one can become a source from which rivers of living water flow (cf. Jn 7:37-38). Yet to become such a source, one must constantly drink anew from the original source, which is Jesus Christ, from whose pierced heart flows the love of God (cf. Jn 19:34)."

 

[Jasny]

BarbaraTherese said: reject totally this whole reasoning that marriage is a lesser state than the celibate state.

and again she wrote:

I cannot conceive that a call from God to the married state to witness to and to live out that Love Christ has for His Church can be called a ‘lesser state’ that is just to me so plainly ridiculous and downright illogical and to me anyway theologically unsound.

BarbaraTherese,
I understand your confusion . That is why I started this thread. People have a wrong understanding that one State of Life can’t be higher than another.
You seem to say you accept the Church’s teaching on this topic but in the above quotes you seem to contradict your own admission. My position is that of the Church not my own. I wished thing could be different but they aren’t. There has been no change or deeper understanding to change this Dogma

This is what the Council of Trent 24th Session, Doctrine on the Sacrament of Matrimony, Canon X QUOTE:

CANON X.-If any one saith, that the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy, and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony; let him be anathema.

As for implying that what I hold has given way to something different here is JPII of happy memory:

POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
VITA CONSECRATA
OF THE HOLY FATHER
JOHN PAUL II

1. This is why Christian tradition has always spoken of the objective superiority of the consecrated life.

and again:

FAMILIARIS CONSORTIO
16…Rightly indeed does St. John Chrysostom say: “Whoever denigrates marriage also diminishes the glory of virginity. Whoever praises it makes virginity more admirable and resplendent. What appears good only in comparison with evil would not be particularly good. It is something better than what is admitted to be good that is the most excellent good.”

thistle wrote :It just wasn’t clear to me if that was what Jasny was saying. It seemed that she was saying that different states are not equal and that everyone should strive for the highest. That of course would be totally impractical, even if one was higher than the other which is not the case anyway. There are many ways to holiness and they are simply different, not greater or lesser.

Different States are not equal but how the person responds to her state makes the difference.

Also to assume that because marriage is a lower State makes it easier is not true either.
I am not denegrating Marriage only drawing distinctions.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quoting Jasny…

BarbaraTherese,
I understand your confusion . That is why I started this thread. People have a wrong understanding that one State of Life can’t be higher than another.
You seem to say you accept the Church’s teaching on this topic but in the above quotes you seem to contradict your own admission. My position is that of the Church not my own. I wished thing could be different but they aren’t. There has been no change or deeper understanding to change this Dogma

Hi Jasny…thank you for the response. I think possibly that we both could be misunderstanding each other. I can see nothing higher than God’s Will no matter what it may be even when I wash my dishes for that is God’s Will for me at that time…and this includes the state of life to which a person is called by God. Can I put it this way for clarification: Is going to Mass higher than washing dishes…of course it is! But if I go to Mass on a weekday when I know I should be doing the dishes for some important reason and indicative of God’s Will for me in the moment, then not going to Mass would not be higher for me, rather to do my duty and the dishes. Nothing can ever be more important than fulfilling God’s Will in small and great matters. And please I dont want to get into a debate about how I could leave the dishes and go to Mass which indicates my example has not been insighted and understood.

If we consider the states in life purely from an objective angle then yes, it could be said some are higher, some lower some are states of perfection and others not…but all states can and do lead to perfection equally. The reason religious or priestly life can be said to be ‘higher’ is simply because the life itself is structured to lead to perfection and unity with God’s Will as its prime objective and goal - it exists for that reason. It’s prime stated objective intrinsic to the lifestyle is to aim for perfection and unity with God and His Hill, and this becomes a purely theological statement of objectivity.

However in the living out of theological concepts the subjective enters into matters and where the subjective exists nothing can be higher than God’s Will and no matter what His Will may be for that subject or person including the state of life to which God calls one.
If I am married or single can I attain perfection and unity with God and His Will as much as in religious or priestly life in my married or single vocation and of course the answer is yes,an affirmative.

To further clairfy, which is higher - a theological concept or God and His Will…God and His Will of course.

If I am married or single am I called to a ‘lesser state’ - objectively theologically it could be stated affirmative…while subjectively in embracing God’s Will for me I have chosen the highest state in life possible for me - the subjective factor. Hence have I chosen a ‘lesser’ state of life and the answer is in the negative. No I have not by virtue of God’s Will. To state otherwise is to say a state in life can override and be higher than God’s Will???

Perhaps if the debate is to continue and with humility , we need to state whether our comments are purely objective theological comments or whether they are subjective? But again, with humility I think we may be saying the same things differently and repeatedly. My comments are in the main considering the subjective.

Regards Jasny - Barb