Is This SF Fraternity Legit

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AndyF

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thetraditionalthirdorderofstfrancis.blogspot.com/2009/11/two-more-children-take-on-cord.html

I am speculating here, and forgive me if it is. I find a few things that are disturbing.

1/ I find no references to a Curator who can be contacted. (ESPECIALLY, since we have children involved.)

2/ Enlistment of underage children. I thought 14 was bottom limit.

3/ In his “My Profile” He states he is in agreement with the Pope and the Catholic Church, but he takes issue with the prior 40 years of work of the Magisterium, which we can conclude through this all encompassing view, that we have a fraternity that can now ignore the promise to absolute allegiance to the Pope, a Rule element that dates back to the first Rule, and ignores the inspirational endeavors of the Holy Spirit through Pope John Paul II for that time span, and marks as trivial the miracle of this time, the celebration of the election of the Pope to beatification.

Frankly, I can’t remember St. Francis taking a pick-and-choose attitude toward the Church at any time. When he was called to the Church to answer some questions he obediently went.

Again, I could be wrong and I’m rusty of St. Francis basics. If so I stand corrected.

Andy
 
I doubt that they’re in agreement and communion with the church, namely because they have a problem with certain aspects of Catholicism for the past 40 years (Vatican 2). I also saw on the site that they recieved blessings from the head of the SSPX who are not in full communion with the church. If I were you, I would steer clear of this fraternity and other websites like it.
 
Madaglan:

Consecration of the Order to the Immaculate Heart of Mary
Article 68: Third Order Secular St. Francis of Assisi

“Every year at the May or December Fraternity Meeting, the Reverend Director will have his Tertiaries publicly renew their consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary”

and from that prayer:

“We pledge…and to live as befits Catholics who are duly submissive to all the directions of the Pope and Bishops in communion with him.”

His quote:

“This community chose to keep faithful to the spirit of the Franciscan Order as practiced by St. Francis of Assisi”

“As signs of contradiction, we not only fight for the sanctity of our own souls, but for the restoration of Holy Mother Church.”

The Church, or Christ, does not need restoration, it’s perfect. Were similar words echoed prior to the reformation.?

I think that St. Francis would not take kindly his brothers assuming to know what is better than the office of Pope. He humbly would submit his trust in God in that area. A student can not become greater than his master, and a Franciscan knows his place.

But more seriously, having set themselves against the Church by this decree, we can see the typical events unfolding. Underage children was phase 2 of the ruse perpetrated by satan. I ask what’s next, and I would wager it’s nothing we were not familiar with and that makes me shudder. Do we have another David Karesh?

Thanks.

Andy
 
how a secular order with such views can claim to be under the patronage of a saint who walked barefoot to Rome for approval of his rule and order simply defies the limits of arrogance.
 
puzzleannie:

Indeed.

I have presented this concern to the Diocese of Toronto with hope some reconciliation can be made.

We can only pray the outcome is favorable.

Andy
 
This is not a legitimate or legal Franciscan order. The Third Order of St. Francis has a Superior General who resides in Rome, just as do the Friars. It also has a General Council that assists the Superior General in its government.

Each country has a national Minister (Superior) and Council. Canonically, only the national superior can establish new fraternities with the consent of the local bishop. They claim to help in the establishment of new fraternities. No one can do that except the Superior. A fraternity has to be canonically erected, just like a friary and a mastery.

The Order has a Rule written by St. Francis in 1221 and revised by Pope Paul VI in 1978. It has a Constitution voted on by the General Chapter of Secular Franciscans in 2000 and approved by the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, then signed by Pope John Paul II. They allege to correct what has happened in the last 40 years. This implies that they do not acknowledge the rule revised by Paul VI and the Constitutions approved by John Paul II. They ignore the authority of the Superior General and the National Minister as the only authorized persons to erect new fraternities.

In addition, they claim to be attached to the Capuchins of France. But the Capuchins of France were excommunicated and remain so, for their support of the SSPX ordinations at the request of the four superiors general of the Franciscan Order. Those excommunications have not been lifted and may never be lifted as long as the Franciscans have anything to say about it. The reaosn for such a sten measure is that the Rule of St. Francis explicitly forbids the friars, nuns and secular Franciscans disobeying the pope or supporting anyone who disobeys the pope, even if the pope is wrong. St. Francis wrote into his rule that all Franciscans are bound to obey the pope and him, even after his death, under penalty of losing our immortal souls. When we make our vows, we solemnly vow and promise to obey the pope and Francis in all things, without question. The rule makes no exception, even if the pope and Francis are wrong. The rule was sealed by a Bull by Pope Honorius III. It cannot be changed except by another pope.

They have no legal right to get around the rule and make changes to the structure of the Secular Order without the permission of the Holy Father. The highest ranking superior of the Franciscan Family is the Holy Father, followed by St. Francis, then his canonically elected successors, then all the brothers gathered together in a chapter.

In their presentation they lend their support to the SSPX, which is immoral for Franciscans to do until the SSPX is in full communion with the Holy Father. It would be a sin against the rule and a violation of obedience to the rule.

I would not go near them, unless they divorce themselves from the Franciscan Order and establish themselves as an autonomous institute of consecrated life with canonical approval, that can be given by a local bishop.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Thank you, J.R., for the clarification. It is good to have you around when questions about St. Francis arise.
 
JReducation:

Thanks for your heads up. Another I am interested in is www.ofmi.net, which has a fraternity in my region, but having so far attended the first meeting I discover their founder Fr. David seems to have a history of disobedience and being unwelcome, there could be a SSPX connection here too. What do you think.?

If your fraternity is not available in Ontario,Canada can I start one.? 👍
Guess I’d need to go to my Bishop.

Andy
 
AndyF said:
JReducation:

Thanks for your heads up. Another I am interested in is www.ofmi.net, which has a fraternity in my region, but having so far attended the first meeting I discover their founder Fr. David seems to have a history of disobedience and being unwelcome, there could be a SSPX connection here too. What do you think.?

If your fraternity is not available in Ontario,Canada can I start one.? 👍
Guess I’d need to go to my Bishop.

Andy
Click to expand...
I read through their material and they are not in an irregular situation. I don’t understand why they have not found a bishop to approve them after 25 years. It usually does not take that long. I would ask about that, before joining them.

I know that our own Francisan Brothers of Life was assigned a spiritual guide by the Archbishop upon presenting the proposal. That took less than a month to get the spiritual guide. Once you have a spiritual guide assigned to you, for the purpose of discerning, you go from there under his direction. The Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word on EWTN are also an association and they too were given a spiritual guide to help the discern their journey very early after their put in the request. They are less than 25 years old. I can’t figure out why this community does not have one, unless they were denied by the bishop.

I wish I could help you.

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
After posting on the OFMI, I had another thought. Maybe the reasont that they have not received approval is because they are very similar to the Franciscans of the Immaculate. Many times the bishops will not grant approval to communities unless they provide soemthing that the Church needs, such as new ministry or a way of lfie that is not available

From what I can see from their post, they conform to the Franciscan statutes in every other way.
  1. prayer
  2. fraternity
  3. ministry
  4. contemplation
  5. the rule of 1223
  6. strict control over the place of priests in the order
  7. balance between the EF and OF
  8. penitential life
  9. absolute obedience to the superior and Francis
    10.poverty
I can’t see anything there that is not required by Franciscan statutes. But I do see too many similarities between them and the FI.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
After posting on the OFMI, I had another thought. Maybe the reasont that they have not received approval is because they are very similar to the Franciscans of the Immaculate. Many times the bishops will not grant approval to communities unless they provide soemthing that the Church needs, such as new ministry or a way of lfie that is not available

From what I can see from their post, they conform to the Franciscan statutes in every other way.
  1. prayer
  2. fraternity
  3. ministry
  4. contemplation
  5. the rule of 1223
  6. strict control over the place of priests in the order
  7. balance between the EF and OF
  8. penitential life
  9. absolute obedience to the superior and Francis
    10.poverty
I can’t see anything there that is not required by Franciscan statutes. But I do see too many similarities between them and the FI.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Click to expand...
Thanks. Does your order accept female tertiaries/members

Andy
 
AndyF said:
Thanks. Does your order accept female tertiaries/members

Andy
Click to expand...
Not really. I mean, the Franciscan family is one family. There is already the one Secular Franciscan Order (SFO). I do formation for a local fraternity of Secular Franciscans. But there are not different Secular Franciscan Orders. There is a group of tertiaries that is attached to the Franciscans of the Immaculate. They follow the rule and satutes of the SFO. In addition to the SFO rule and constitutions, these tertiaries also practice the Marian spirituality of the Franciscans of the Immaculate. But they are really part of the SFO, just a separate branch.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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