Is this true?

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Robert_Michael

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I was reading a website and this guy started talking about the Catholic position on justification. I just want to know if he’s right. Raised a lot of questions (and some doubts, to be quite honest :()
Listen carefully. I’m quoting again from Adventist Review, June 22, 2000, and here is their description of the Catholic position [on justification]:
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“According to the Catechism of the Catholic church,” and he’s quoting here that “Christ’s perfect righteousness is infused into the life of the believer through the sacraments administered by the Roman Catholic Church. Rome teaches that this saving doesn’t remain outside of us but actually becomes something that happens inside a person, a change which gives that person merit before God.” So let’s try to break that down just a little bit.
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The real Catholic position is, first, infused righteousness. Now what does that mean? That’s a little bit like filling your gas tank. You infuse gas into the tank. And when you infuse it and its full-up, you have a full gas tank, and then you can run on that gas tank until the gas runs out. You have a reservoir in your soul which can get filled-up with righteousness, and God will pour-in His righteousness into you, and you get filled-up with righteousness, infused. That’s not imputed, and that’s not imparted, its infused. Aren’t we getting technical now?
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Infusing is filling-up into a reservoir. How do you get filled-up? Through the sacraments. This is crucial, this is the bottom-line. Through the sacraments administered by the Catholic Church. You donÕt get righteousness by getting on your knees and praying. You don’t get righteousness by studying the Word of God. You don’t get righteousness by walking with Christ day by day. You get righteousness only through the sacraments as the priest administers them. There is no other way of righteousness available for the human being.
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Then, you see, this merit which comes inside us, actually gives that person merit before God. So then our works merit eternal life. Because here at this point, you see, we’ve been infused with righteousness, and now we’ve got all this good righteousness inside of us, so that means the good works we do come out of this infused righteousness, and that’s why it has merit for eternal life.
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Here again is the way the Catholic Church states this: “The merit of good works belongs not just to Christ, but also to the faithful, who’s good works do then grant them merit before God.” Since we have this righteousness, our works give us merit. “We can merit for ourselves,” the Catechism says, “and for all others, the graces needed to obtain eternal life.” So once we have this righteousness within us, we then merit what we get because our works are being done by this good righteousness that has been placed within us, and we can have this experience in our life.
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Here’s another way of stating it. Again, these are all quoted by Clifford Goldstein from the Catholic Catechism. “The Church affirms that for believers, the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.” You don’t get salvation without the sacraments. Have to have the sacraments: baptism, confirmation, eucharist, penance, anointing of the sick, holy orders, matrimony. That’s the only way you receive any righteousness at all is by receiving those sacraments. “The Roman Catholic system is based on the crucial notion that all that Christ has done or does for a person comes mediated through the Church itself. Salvation is dispensed to the faithful only through the Church and its sacraments and its priesthood. Rome sees itself as the sole dispenser of grace.”
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So the real Catholic position is infused righteousness through the sacraments; that’s what Catholicism teaches. It is not about Christ in us. It is not about making righteous. It is not about the new birth preceding justification. It is about grace received only through the sacraments; that’s the real Catholic position as expressed in the very same article, so clearly. So you have in the same article the real Catholic position and the false Catholic position, all crammed-together to make you think that they are all one and the same. That’s where this becomes extremely hard to sort out.
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In fact, Woodrow Whidden in his article in the Adventist Review, May 25, 2000, does the very same thing. He says this: “The Catholic way of salvation is a vast sacramental system that sees grace as being mediated through the sacraments administered by ordained priests. The sacraments and the human priests are the channels of saving grace. In partaking of these, Catholics partake of Jesus and His saving grace. It is the sanctifying grace of God infused into the believer through the sacraments of the Church; this inner, infused righteousness forms the meritorious basis of the penitent believer’s justification.” So infused righteousness comes through the sacraments. Rome teaches that the sinner is justified because of what grace does in him or her.
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And listen to this, this is a nice summary. Again, this is from the same article: “The necessity of other mediators than Christ in the Roman system becomes especially apparent when we look at the sacrament of penance. When a person goes to confession, the penitent receives absolution, the forgiveness of sins from the priest confessor. The guilt of sin and its eternal penalties are absolved or remitted by the priest, the but the temporal, earthly time-based penalties are not. These latter penalties must be satisfied or worked-off through indulgences. These indulgences draw upon the so-called treasury of merit, a vast reservoir of excess merit that Jesus and the saints have gained through their righteous lives. Access to this treasury is the prerogative of the Church, and it obtained by the faithful through various actions, observances, or financial purchases.”
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Infused righteousness refers to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Justification, i.e. right standing before God. Within the Roman Catholic view, Justification is seen as a “process” as contrasted to the Protestant view of a moment-in-time forensic declaration by God that the sinner is righteous. The instrumental cause of infused righteousness are the sacraments of baptism and penance, where as the instrumental cause of imputed righteousness is faith. Roman Catholicism maintains that the righteousness of the saints and of Christ is gradually “infused” into the believer through the sacraments. For the Catholic, infused righteousness either gradually dissipates as the believer takes part in worldly sins or is enhanced by good works. If the believer dies without having the fullness of righteousness, coming in part from the last rites, he or she will temporarily spend time in purgatory until the sinful status is purged from his or her record.

For the Roman Catholic, the believer is made righteous by cooperating with God’s grace. For the Protestant, the believer is declared righteous when he comes to faith, based on the righteousness of Christ credited (imputed) to him.
this clifford goldstein is a seventh day adventist, so him saying what the Catholic Church believes is like the taliban saying what america believes
 
johnshark said:
Within the Roman Catholic view, Justification is seen as a “process” as contrasted to the Protestant view of a moment-in-time forensic declaration by God that the sinner is righteous.
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That’s right. The Catholic view is that God not only declares us justified (as Protestants teach), but He also actually MAKES us justified through sanctification and glorification. In other words, what God declares actually happens (i.e. God said let there be light, and there was).
 
I stopped reading the long quote at the point where he says we don’t believe we get “infused” (whatever) by praying…

Our prayer life is very much a part of our entire participation with the Holy Spirit and that is why the Catholic Church pays so much attention to the actual wording of our prayers. I don’t see how anyone can dismiss the importance of prayer in the Catholic faith as regards justification. I don’t believe anyone who regularly receives the Sacraments fails to pray, even if it is only an occasional few words to Jesus or Mary. I don’t believe anyone who neglects their prayers for very long will continue to bother to receive the Sacraments. Thus, they (prayer and justification) are inextricably connected, at least as far as I, a near-sighted member of the humble laity, can see.

And if for some reason private prayer is actually all that is available to a person, that person can be justified through the Baptism of Desire at the point of death. So, how can prayer be dismissed?
 
Thanks guys.

I honestly am having some problems with the whole, “you need to do things along with God”. How can our own personal works justify us? Paul told us that when we work, we are working debt, not grace.

Romans 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

(Sorry for KJV). Also, Clement seems to disagree with works-righteousness.

“So all of them received honor and greatness, not through themselves or their own deeds or the right things they did, but through his will. And we, therefore, who by his will have been called in Jesus Christ, are not justified of ourselves or by our wisdom or insight of religious devotion or the holy deeds we have done from the heart, but by that faith by which almighty God has justified all men from the very beginning. To him be glory forever and ever. Amen. (Clement, Clement’s First Letter, 32.3-4)”
 
Robert_Michael said:
Thanks guys.

I honestly am having some problems with the whole, “you need to do things along with God”. How can our own personal works justify us? Paul told us that when we work, we are working debt, not grace.

Romans 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

(Sorry for KJV). Also, Clement seems to disagree with works-righteousness.

“So all of them received honor and greatness, not through themselves or their own deeds or the right things they did, but through his will. And we, therefore, who by his will have been called in Jesus Christ, are not justified of ourselves or by our wisdom or insight of religious devotion or the holy deeds we have done from the heart, but by that faith by which almighty God has justified all men from the very beginning. To him be glory forever and ever. Amen. (Clement, Clement’s First Letter, 32.3-4)”
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Our own works don’t justify us and the Church doesn’t teach that they do. These article might be helpful to you:

bringyou.to/apologetics/a119.htm

bringyou.to/apologetics/a127.htm

bringyou.to/apologetics/a53.htm

bringyou.to/apologetics/a54.htm
 
Robert_Michael said:
"The real Catholic position is, first, infused righteousness. Now what does that mean? That’s a little bit like filling your gas tank. You infuse gas into the tank. And when you infuse it and its full-up, you have a full gas tank, and then you can run on that gas tank until the gas runs out. You have a reservoir in your soul which can get filled-up with righteousness, and God will pour-in His righteousness into you, and you get filled-up with righteousness, infused. That’s not imputed, and that’s not imparted, its infused. Aren’t we getting technical now?

Infusing is filling-up into a reservoir. How do you get filled-up? Through the sacraments. This is crucial, this is the bottom-line. Through the sacraments administered by the Catholic Church. You don’t get righteousness by getting on your knees and praying. You don’t get righteousness by studying the Word of God. You don’t get righteousness by walking with Christ day by day. You get righteousness only through the sacraments as the priest administers them. There is no other way of righteousness available for the human being."
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This article you quoted from is the most interestingly erroenous, mis-explanation of Catholic view of grace I ever read.

First of all, our souls are neither like a reservoir nor a gas tank, grace is not like gas that fills up the resevoir, and most of all, grace does not get used up.

Grace is not a thing. It is the experience of sharing in the life of God. Grace can certainly come to us through prayer and through reading the Bible. Grace is also dispensed through the seven sacraments as instituted by Christ (and these can be found in the Bible) as the normal means of receiving grace, as follows:

Original sin is really the lack of something, grace, and the sacrament of Baptism restores that grace in our souls. With that new life in God we become a child of God.
**When we sin, grace is weakened (from venial sin) or lost (from mortal sin), and the sacrament of Confession restores grace in our soul.
When we receive the sacrament of the Eucharist, the grace in our soul is strengthened. We become more like Christ and we are better able to “be Christ” to others.
**In the sacrament of Confirmation, we receive the outpouring or strengthening of the Holy Spirit, which helps us to live out our responsibilities as Catholics to live a holy life, spread the Gospel message, and serve others.
**The sacrament of Anointing entrusts the sick person to the Lord for physical and spiritual healing.
**In the sacrament of Marriage, the couple bring Christ to each other, and also to the children they bring into the world. It is through this sacrament that we help build God’s kingdom.
**In the sacrament of Holy Orders, a man is ordained to the ministerial priesthood. He ministers to the faithful and carries on the mission of Christ to bring Christ’s saving grace to all.

So, the sacraments are how Christ continues act in our lives, in all its stages: birth (Baptism), growth (Eucharist, Confirmation), spiritual and physical sickness (Confession and Anointing), and in our mission to build up God’s kingdom (Marriage and Holy Orders).

Grace is a gift from God, not something we deserve but given to us by God and received by us through the sacraments if our hearts our properly disposed to receiving it.

Most Protestants have zero understanding of Catholic theology, particularly in the area of the soul and grace. I recommend that you read Frank Sheed’s “Theology for Beginners”, to help you understand the Truth and be able to counter Protestant misunderstandings and arguments such as the one you posted.
 
Robert_Michael said:
I honestly am having some problems with the whole, “you need to do things along with God”. How can our own personal works justify us? Paul told us that when we work, we are working debt, not grace.
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Paul also said that God “will repay everyone according to his works: **eternal life **to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,…” (Romans 2:6-7).

And James wrote concerning Abraham: “You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works” (2:22). And he goes on to write: “See how a person is justified by** works **and not by faith alone” (2:24).

And Jesus taught: “If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love” (John 15:10).

I think it can be summed up like this: Faith without works is dead, and works without faith are worthless. But faith and works **working together **will lead us to salvation.
 
ServantofMary said:
Paul also said that God “will repay everyone according to his works: **eternal life **to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,…” (Romans 2:6-7).

And James wrote concerning Abraham: “You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works” (2:22). And he goes on to write: “See how a person is justified by** works **and not by faith alone” (2:24).

And Jesus taught: “If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love” (John 15:10).

I think it can be summed up like this: Faith without works is dead, and works without faith are worthless. But faith and works **working together **will lead us to salvation.
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Also keep in mind that the New Testament speaks of two different kinds or works: “good works” (helping someone in need, etc.), and “work of the law”. “Works of the law” refers to the works of the old law - the Jewish religion. At the time of the apostles, most of the Catholics were former Jews. These were people had been told all their lives that they were bound to keep certain laws. Their parents kept these laws, the grandparents kept these laws, and all of their other relatives for generations and generations. The keeping of these laws formed their conscience. Therefore, as would be expected, when they converted the tendency was to incorporate the “works of the law” in with Christianity. This is what St. Paul speaks of when he condemns the “works of the law” over and over in his epistiles. Sometimes he refers to them as works, and sometimes as “works of the law”. The context usually makes it clear.

The Bible refers to good works (as opposed to works of the law), as "faith that worketh through charity. These are the form of works discussion in Matthew 25: 31-46 and many other places. They are the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, and have nothing to do with the “works of the law”.

Also keep in mind that the Bible speaks of justification in two ways. The primary kind of justification is entering into the state of grace, or being “born again”. This is not accomplished by any good work (good deed), but it given freely through baptism, whereby a person is “born again by water and the Holy Ghost” (John 3).

The second kind of justification spoken of in the Bible, is becoming santified in our actions. Simply put, it is becoming holy - doing the will of God. This second kind of justification - doing the will of God (good woks) - justifies us (in a secondary sense) by uniting us to God’s will. Such works sanctify us and give glory to God. *“Let you light so shine before men that they see you good works and glorify your father in heaven.” * The Bible speaks of this second form of justification when it says *“he who is just, let him be justified still” - Apoc (Rev.) 22. * In other words, he who has been justified by grace, let him be justified still by his works. It is the second form of works that James speaks of in Chapter 2.

If you keep in mind the two kinds of works, and the two forms of justification spoken of in the Bible, many passages that may have seemed to contradict one another will be reconciled. The Protestants almost never make these distinction which is why they are so deep in error, and so full of contradictions.
 
Ultima’s explanation of works and justification is one of the best concise explanations I’ve seen. Very well done! 👍
 
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