Is this what heaven sounds like?

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I should perhpas explian for those who haven’t seen the vidoe, after the 1 min intro is a schola with simple organ chanting the Missa de Angelis.

Perhaps this is why Vat II said chant be given first place, organ high esteem, and that the faithful be able to chant or at least say the Mass in Latin.

How many saints now in heaven chanted in Latin (or Aramaic or Greek). Jesus chanted too btw. Listening to the video it sounds so foreign to the secular world. To me it sounds like heaven, and is not the Mass the personification of the heavenly liturgy.
 
Missa Angelis is nice but a bit overdone. The new choirmaster at the Vatican (a Canadian BTW) doesn’t want to use it except on rare occasions for “pastoral” reasons.

But it’s nice and easy to chant for beginners and the faithful, of whom older members are likely to remember it. Most of it actually postdates Gregorian chant by several centuries.

I’m trying to wean our schola off of it with mixed success. My argument is that our mission is to expose the faithful to Gregorian chant, and it isn’t really Gregorian chant. Our choirmaster though thinks that Missa Angelis makes it easier for the faithful to participate.

At least I’ve finally got us to do other Kyries, namely Kyrie XVIIc for Advent and Lent, Ia for Eastertide and XIb (Orbis Factor) for Ordinary Time.
 
OraLabora said:
At least I’ve finally got us to do other Kyries, namely Kyrie XVIIc for Advent and Lent, Ia for Eastertide and XIb (Orbis Factor) for Ordinary Time.
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Very nice, although I greatly prefer Kyrie XVIIb to XVIIc. And while I do love unadorned plainchant, secretly I think that the Kyrie Orbis Factor in Heaven sounds a little more like this (yes, they trope in Heaven!).
 
MarkThompson said:
Very nice, although I greatly prefer Kyrie XVIIb to XVIIc. And while I do love unadorned plainchant, secretly I think that the Kyrie Orbis Factor in Heaven sounds a little more like this (yes, they trope in Heaven!).
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Thanks for this, I had always wondered what Orbis Factor sounded like troped.
 
Canto said:
I should perhpas explian for those who haven’t seen the vidoe, after the 1 min intro is a schola with simple organ chanting the Missa de Angelis.

Perhaps this is why Vat II said chant be given first place, organ high esteem, and that the faithful be able to chant or at least say the Mass in Latin.

How many saints now in heaven chanted in Latin (or Aramaic or Greek). Jesus chanted too btw. Listening to the video it sounds so foreign to the secular world. To me it sounds like heaven, and is not the Mass the personification of the heavenly liturgy.
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Ohh we use this one!!! It is beautiful 😃 The first time I went to this parish the only concrete thing I remembered of the music was the little jump at the eleison. I’ve only been to the TLM at three different parishes, two out of the three for sure used this. That is interesting that it’s not Gregorian though… so what is it, just chant?
 
ljubim said:
That is interesting that it’s not Gregorian though… so what is it, just chant?
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It’s plainchant, but the melodies clearly aren’t Gregorian.

Gregorian Chant is largely from the 10th to 13th century, and earlier in some cases. Missa de Angelis is from the 15th and 16th centuries and is more ornate and melismatic. Also Credo III which typically is used at the Mass of the Angels is from the 17th century. The exception appears to be the Sanctus for it, which is from the 11th and 12th centuries.

Some of the Kyries, such as XIa, have a simpler melody that is clearly from the Gregorian era, but also have a more melismatic variant that is much later, like XIb which is clearly an embellishment of the earlier melody, and is placed in the era from the 14th to 16th century. But at least it has a clearly obvious Gregorian root. Kyrie VIII from the Mass of the Angels doesn’t appear to have an earlier Gregorian root.

Another factor for the Mass of the Angels is that it is in mode V, which is very rare in the Kyriale, and only used for the Kyrie and Gloria with Mass of the Angels as far as I can tell, except for one ad libitum Kyrie.

Overall while I think it’s nice to hear from time to time, it’s overdone. Here are some other nice ones, that are Gregorian chant:

Missa Cum Iubilo (IX) for feasts and solemnities of Our Lady

Missa Orbis Factor (XIb) for Sundays in O.T. (after Epiphany and Pentecost pre-Vatican II)

Kyrie Lux et origo (I) for paschal time

Gloria I for Paschal time

Gloria XIII Stelliferi conditor orbis, ad libitum for Sundays in Ordinary times I find this one particularly haunting.

I’ve just scratched the surface 😃

Here’s a bit more on the overuse of Missa de Angelis:

newliturgicalmovement.org/2007/12/musical-rubrics-and-missa-de-angelis.html
 
OraLabora said:
It’s plainchant, but the melodies clearly aren’t Gregorian.

Gregorian Chant is largely from the 10th to 13th century, and earlier in some cases. Missa de Angelis is from the 15th and 16th centuries and is more ornate and melismatic. Also Credo III which typically is used at the Mass of the Angels is from the 17th century. The exception appears to be the Sanctus for it, which is from the 11th and 12th centuries.

Some of the Kyries, such as XIa, have a simpler melody that is clearly from the Gregorian era, but also have a more melismatic variant that is much later, like XIb which is clearly an embellishment of the earlier melody, and is placed in the era from the 14th to 16th century. But at least it has a clearly obvious Gregorian root. Kyrie VIII from the Mass of the Angels doesn’t appear to have an earlier Gregorian root.

Another factor for the Mass of the Angels is that it is in mode V, which is very rare in the Kyriale, and only used for the Kyrie and Gloria with Mass of the Angels as far as I can tell, except for one ad libitum Kyrie.

Overall while I think it’s nice to hear from time to time, it’s overdone. Here are some other nice ones, that are Gregorian chant:

Missa Cum Iubilo (IX) for feasts and solemnities of Our Lady

Missa Orbis Factor (XIb) for Sundays in O.T. (after Epiphany and Pentecost pre-Vatican II)

Kyrie Lux et origo (I) for paschal time

Gloria I for Paschal time

Gloria XIII Stelliferi conditor orbis, ad libitum for Sundays in Ordinary times I find this one particularly haunting.

I’ve just scratched the surface 😃

Here’s a bit more on the overuse of Missa de Angelis:

newliturgicalmovement.org/2007/12/musical-rubrics-and-missa-de-angelis.html
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:eek: Wow that’s a lot of info! Thanks. I had been confused about what was or wasn’t Gregorian for a while, this should clear it up.
 
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