Is wearing a brown scapular really Christian?

[justcatholic]

teajay

        No, you are wrong. I definitely am a Catholic. But I have only been one for 3 years. I was formerly a Baptist. Most of my Christian life I was taught to trust solely in Christ for everything. But after being Catholic awhile, I see Catholics venerate Mary almost as much as Jesus, which does trouble me. I formerly became a Catholic because of the early church evidence supporting baptismal regeneration and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

       But now I am overwhelmed with people saying I must now pray to Mary and trust in her by reciting rosaries and wearing cloth scapulars? If I found early church evidence that the church once believed and practiced these things I would not hesitate to be a Marian follower. But I simply and honestly cannot find any church father or writings by any New Testament apostle that devoted themselves to Mary in the same way that modern day Catholics do with rosaries, novenas and the wearing of prayer cloths? Shouldn't our faith be built on what the early church believed in and practiced? You tell me?

 

[Genesis315]

justcatholic:

teajayBut now I am overwhelmed with people saying I must now pray to Mary and trust in her by reciting rosaries and wearing cloth scapulars? If I found early church evidence that the church once believed and practiced these things I would not hesitate to be a Marian follower. But I simply and honestly cannot find any church father or writings by any New Testament apostle that devoted themselves to Mary in the same way that modern day Catholics do with rosaries, novenas and the wearing of prayer cloths? Shouldn’t our faith be built on what the early church believed in and practiced? You tell me?

The Sabbatine privilige comes from an apparition, a private revelation. You by no means have to do any of these private devotions. You can be saved without ever saying a Hail Mary.

God can work through objects and objects associated with human beings, such as Mary. He had Moses make a metal snake that protected those who looked at it. Likewise, people were healed by a cloth from one of the Apostles (St. Peter, I think). That’s the general idea with sacramentals.

Ok, I was wrong, it was St. Paul:
“And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them” (Acts 19:11-12).

 

[Lazerlike42]

justcatholic:

teajay

        No, you are wrong. I definitely am a Catholic. But I have only been one for 3 years. I was formerly a Baptist. Most of my Christian life I was taught to trust solely in Christ for everything. But after being Catholic awhile, I see Catholics venerate Mary almost as much as Jesus, which does trouble me. I formerly became a Catholic because of the early church evidence supporting baptismal regeneration and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

       But now I am overwhelmed with people saying I must now pray to Mary and trust in her by reciting rosaries and wearing cloth scapulars? If I found early church evidence that the church once believed and practiced these things I would not hesitate to be a Marian follower. But I simply and honestly cannot find any church father or writings by any New Testament apostle that devoted themselves to Mary in the same way that modern day Catholics do with rosaries, novenas and the wearing of prayer cloths? Shouldn't our faith be built on what the early church believed in and practiced? You tell me?

You’re right. Anybody telling you you MUST venerate Mary or pray the Rosary is wrong. There is a program in the Carholic Answers Radio archive where an apologist doesn’t do this, but says basically that anybody who doesn’t is missing a massive part of the faith, or a ton of grace, or something. The way I have put it is not correct, but he basically goes too far.

You don’t HAVE to do these things. They can be beneficial to you if you do them. However, you will be ok if you don’t.

Like I said below, there are some Catholics who really take Mary way, way too far. They are hurting their own faith by being too focused on Mary, and also hurting the Church because they make people think we worship Mary, and they make other Catholics, like you, feel weak in your faith and question it.

If Mary were here today, I believe she would tell these people, “I really appreciate this and hey, keep it up, but… can you pay a little bit more attention to my Son?”

Of course I don’t know what she’d say for sure lol… and please, don’t get me wrong: I am not anti-Mary at all!

 

[threej_lc]

justcatholic:

But now I am overwhelmed with people saying I must now pray to Mary and trust in her by reciting rosaries and wearing cloth scapulars? If I found early church evidence that the church once believed and practiced these things I would not hesitate to be a Marian follower. But I simply and honestly cannot find any church father or writings by any New Testament apostle that devoted themselves to Mary in the same way that modern day Catholics do with rosaries, novenas and the wearing of prayer cloths? Shouldn’t our faith be built on what the early church believed in and practiced? You tell me?

Anyone who says you MUST pray to mary is a nutjob. Whereas I personally believe she is the best way to come to know Christ more intimately, she is of course not the only way to give oneself completely to Christ.

I know the early church fathers mention Mary in very high regard and the beginnings of Marian devotion can be detected in some of their writings, but I don’t know them well enough to give you examples. Perhaps someone else here on this forum?

Once more, though, the vast majority of the aspects of marian devotion are the result of private revelation which took place after the early church. The faithful are in no way required to believe or practice what is given in private revelation. The church gives its okay to these private revelations, not its requirement. You are perfectly free not to believe in them, and the church has no problem with it.

Thanks for engaging in such a good question so thoroughly!
Josh

 

[Inkman]

I am overwhelmed with people saying I **must **now pray to Mary and trust in her by reciting rosaries and wearing cloth scapulars?

Must? Tell them not to be silly!

I look at it this way, Someone might ask to borrow my new boat motor (crazy John) and I have no problems telling John NO WAY! but if my mother was to come to me and say “Can you lend Maria’s son John your new motor, will you do that for me?” I would have a hard time saying no. That is why I ask Mary to interceed for me to her Son.

P.S I would not have guessed you Catholic either , you should (not must) always capitalize the “C”

 

[Sherlock]

JustCatholic,

As others have said, you don’t have to pray to Mary. I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to—certainly, the great saints had strong devotion to our Mother (remember, she was given to us as our Mother by Jesus himself). Like any good Jewish mother, she always wants to point to her son.

Regarding scapulars: it’s a private devotion. If they make you uncomfortable, don’t wear one. Like all private devotions, they are not to be disassociated from the interior life of a Christian—they are simply an aid. The scapular reflects an inner commitment.

Our priest, who was in seminary during a very turbulent time (late seventies) wore a scapular and stated that those fellow seminarians who also wore a scapular went on to become good priests—those who did not fell away. I wouldn’t brush off private devotions as superstitious—they’re not, when properly understood. Personally, I always wear one.

 

[teajay]

justcatholic:

teajay

No, you are wrong. I definitely am a Catholic. But I have only been one for 3 years. I was formerly a Baptist. Most of my Christian life I was taught to trust solely in Christ for everything. But after being Catholic awhile, I see Catholics venerate Mary almost as much as Jesus, which does trouble me. I formerly became a Catholic because of the early church evidence supporting baptismal regeneration and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

But now I am overwhelmed with people saying I must now pray to Mary and trust in her by reciting rosaries and wearing cloth scapulars? If I found early church evidence that the church once believed and practiced these things I would not hesitate to be a Marian follower. But I simply and honestly cannot find any church father or writings by any New Testament apostle that devoted themselves to Mary in the same way that modern day Catholics do with rosaries, novenas and the wearing of prayer cloths? Shouldn’t our faith be built on what the early church believed in and practiced? You tell me?

I apologise for the accusation justcatholic. I’ve just seen a few people do something similar and assumed that you must have been doing the same. Please accept my apology.

I personally would not wear a scapular. My initial (incorrect) reaction was that it’s superstitious. I cringe to think how I’d explain it to my Pentecostal friend, who is already anti-Catholic enough as it is. But if it helps focus a person’s mind in some way, then it is merely a means to an end, that end being a focused mind.

I think a lot of the Marian stuff is more to do with people than it is to do with Mary. Some might think it’s easier to relate to Mary, because she is only human, whereas it’s sometimes hard for some to relate to Jesus because he is human and God. But ultimately she is totally dependant upon Jesus for everything she has. She has no inherent power of her own.

In Australia, there are two major traditions in Catholicism, the Irish-Catholic and the Italian-Catholic traditions. These are not formal distinctions, they are just observations based on practice. The Italian-Catholic tradition seems to involve much more statue-related and Marian stuff, whereas the Irish-Catholic tradition doesn’t as much. I am from an Irish-Catholic background and had never even seen a scapular until last year at Mass. My current parish has many immigrants so I assume that is why it’s different to my old one.

Everything should in some way contribute to and enhance your veneration of Christ.

 

[drforjc]

Teajay,

But if it helps focus a person’s mind in some way, then it is merely a means to an end, that end being a focused mind.

Actually, a blessed scapular would be a sacramental. Here is what the CCC says about sacramentals:

**
****1670 ****Sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do, but by the Church’s prayer, they prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. “For well-disposed members of the faithful, the liturgy of the sacraments and sacramentals sanctifies almost every event of their lives with the divine grace which flows from the Paschal mystery of the Passion, Death, and Resurrection of Christ. From this source all sacraments and sacramentals draw their power. There is scarcely any proper use of material things which cannot be thus directed toward the sanctification of men and the praise of God.”

**

 

[Anima_Christi]

justcatholic:

I can find no church traditional evidence for at least 500 years that this practice was done in the Catholic church. Neither is there any mention of such a practice in the New Testament. If this is indeed the case, then this certainly cannot be of apostolic origin or sanctioned by the early Catholic church? That was my point.

There are many things we do today that were not done in the early Catholic Church (such as the rosary)–that doesn’t mean they are wrong. The Catholic Church has the same authority now as it did then and has approved the scapular. Many, many popes and saints wore the brown scapular and encourged its use . The brown scapular is a marvelous gift that was given to St. Simon Stock by the Blessed Virgin as a sign of devotion to her and her son. It reminds us that we wear the yoke of Christ and Mary. The promise that “Whosoever dies clothed in this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire” is not to be understood as a literal assurance of salvation, for that would be superstitious, blasphemous, and contrary to Catholic belief. What is meant by this promise is that if you are devoted to Our Lady by wearing the scapular, praying the rosary or some other devotion, and living a chaste life, she will see that we die in a state of grace and enter heaven.
When the Mother of God appeared to the children at Fatima, she told them that one day, through the rosary and the scapular, she would save the world.