Is winning more important than loving?

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When the Jewish legalist heard Jesus say that loving his neighbour was the second greatest commandment, he asked who this meant. Jesus replied with the beautiful parable of the Good Samaritan, in which it is the ‘race enemy’ of the fallen Jew who helps him.

Whatever flavour of Christian each one of us may happen to be, all are called to love our neighbours, even those who might be called enemies, as ourselves. However, in these fora, we all too often see behaviour calculated to “win” arguments rather than to express such love.

A lack of disclosure is one example: a poster will present only those data which obviously support her claim, deliberately omitting data which might raise awkward questions. In so doing, she deliberately deprives her audience of the resources which they need to form an accurate conclusion. Of course, once they do learn about this other data, especially if it can be acquired very easily from other sources, they quickly lose respect for the credibility of this poster. Likewise, when presented with data which contradicts his position, rather than admitting that he may have to reconsider some of his assumptions, a poster will try to impugn the data, the source, or his correspondent, in an attempt to bull his way through to a ‘victory’ in which his correspondent gives up any attempt to discuss the topic with him.

(This reminds me of my time living in China, when any piece of data which did not support the contention that ‘China is the best country in the world’ was censored, and any mention of one of the least of China’s flaws was met with the plaintive cry, “But why do you hate China?” I am sure that you can imagine what such an information blackout does for the effectiveness of their education sytem.)

Sheer impoliteness is another. It is impolite to say, “NO. YOU ARE WRONG.” This is impolite because it is a/ dismissive of another’s intellectual capacity, b/ confrontational, and c/ just plain arrogant. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone; before you address the mote in your brother’s eye, remove the plank from your own. Fallibility is a hallmark of humanity, and it is high time that we acknowledged that. Even “That is not entirely accurate” is better, although it does not rate as highly as “I think that your statement might be incorrect.”

It is similarly impolite to say, “People-who-belong-to-this-church do Y bad thing”; more often than not, it is also incorrect, and would you really want to use the trademark argument of bigotry?

Repeating an argument does not make it more cogent. While I am on this, it might be useful to consider that a source provided by your church is less likely to be convincing than three or four sources provided by others who have no vested interest in proving your position.

Stating that “This is true because it comes from my church and that is false because it comes from yours” is neither respectful, nor convincing: if your audience believed that, they would already be in your church.

Assuming that only a fool believes something different from yourself is arrogant and naive, considering the number of great thinkers who have come from the various belief positions.

Consider, if you will, one last proposition. If your viewpoint is as true as you believe it to be, and I truly hope that it is, then it can never be disproved. As such, you have no reason to fear any source, any data, any admission of complexity, or variability. You have no need of recourse to tricks, dirty or otherwise. The truth is the truth, and will not change for aught any human says about it.

Your discussion will be more honest, more loving, and more valuable to all if it is a genuine enquiry into the truth of the matter, rather than an attempt to ‘win’.

However, perhaps I am wrong about this. Perhaps I am the only one who is fallible. Perhaps winning really is more important than loving our neighbours. Perhaps what we believe is only true if we can bludgeon others into giving up any attempt to argue with us.

I hope to God that this is not so.
 
I agree that it is an excellent post.

We should remember that Internet forms have their advantages and disadvantages. A post may come across different from what was intended. If the same conversation occurred in RL, the poster’s facial expressions and tones may convey a whole different meaning. Smiles are a poor substitute but can be used more often then they are.

When a come across a situation as you described, I try and give the original poster every benefit of the doubt. I also remember that it’s unlikely that very many living saints post here and thus we are all probably cross the line fro time to time. I have and I apologize when I realize what I’ve done.

This being said, I also support people who tell the truth even when the truth is not liked. Giving people the truth is the most loving thing we can do. This should not be done to ‘win’ any glory for oneself but for the greater glory of God.
 
I have always viewed apologetics (the reason this forum exists) as the means of winning–souls, not arguments.

No one who desires to win souls ever has need to obfuscate or deny the truth or be disingenuous. The truth will always come out, one way or the other.

As to love, it is a very powerful virtue, but it is not the only virtue. And, it certainly doesn’t trump the truth. People may not always want to hear the truth, but it still must be conveyed–as lovingly as possible, I agree.

The problem with making love more important than the truth is that it can so easily be misconstrued for what it is not, and that is “niceness.” Politeness is essential, but being “nice” just to keep others from being challenged by the truth leads inevitably to wishy-washy theology and an ignoring of truth for the sake of “getting along.” And to my mind our society suffers from such wishy-washiness far too much already. It’s why people don’t want to hear the truth, which hinders them from seeing what is true and acting on it.
 
Very good point as to sharing God’s Love rather than proving a point. ❤️

Phyllis @};-
 
But is it truly loving someone if that person is allowed to continue in falsehood and not the Truth?

After all Jesus is the Truth, correct?
 
Indeed.

Moral relativism is the lingua franca of philosophical discussion today. Rather than an earnest inquiry into what Truth is, too many seek the cheap grace of “my truth”. There is simply no such thing.

Unfortunately, there is no shortage of purveyors of falsehood who assail Truth relentlessly. It must be defended. And so some of us do.

When we read the accounts of Christ and the Apostles in Scripture, are we reading about men who did not care about Truth? Are we reading of men who saw tolerance of falsehood as the cardinal virtue?

No, we do not.

In reading St Paul’s exhortations to the Corinthians, for example, we see the great Apostle taking a wayward flock to task for their straying. He defends Truth and demands they do the same. Far from being tolerant of the various false apostles of his day, he excoriates them and warns Christians to avoid them.

I wonder sometimes how St Paul would be treated today. I suspect he would be cluck-clucked at for his alleged lack of charity and his obdurate defense of Truth even when it aroused discomfort.

Loving is crucial, but I think the OP has a far shallower definition of loving than did St Paul or Christ.

An anecdote:

My wife’s parents and sister are alcoholics. We recently had to break ties with them for the sake of our infant son. My wife explained to them that they needed only to seek treatment for the alcoholism that is poisoning them ever more rapidly to restore those ties. Their response was pure denial.

Recently, their best friend passed away from complications due to alcoholism. She had been advised to stop drinking but did not. Indeed, My father-in-law smuggled her alcohol.

Her son confronted my wife several weeks ago about her refusal to attend family functions and to go on as though nothing was wrong. She patiently explained that that was the one thing she could not do—pretending as though nothing was wrong had already claimed the life of his mother and would likely take her parents and sister if such a policy were to be continued. How would that be loving them?

A hard truth is better than an easy lie.

And sometimes one must be willing to be the bearer of hard truths if loving is truly important.

The pithy saying on A&E’s “Intervention” is “I love you, but I’m not going to love you to death.”

It applies to many things, I find.
 
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