Is 'Wisdom' Jesus?

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As I read the book of Wisdom and the book of Sirach, it always pictures Wisdom as a beautiful thing, existing with God in the beginning… It reminds me of the Word referred to as Jesus in the book of John…

Could the reference of Wisdom be connected to Jesus or perhaps the Holy Spirit?? (Ohh, I might be thinking it could be more towards the Holy Spirit) Or am I way off??
 
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silverwings_88:
As I read the book of Wisdom and the book of Sirach, it always pictures Wisdom as a beautiful thing, existing with God in the beginning… It reminds me of the Word referred to as Jesus in the book of John…

Could the reference of Wisdom be connected to Jesus or perhaps the Holy Spirit?? (Ohh, I might be thinking it could be more towards the Holy Spirit) Or am I way off??

Wisdom is represented as female 🙂 - just as in Proverbs.​

It’s a preparation for the NT’s ideas - but no more: just as with similar passages in Ecclesiasticus (AKA Sirach)

In the NT, Christ is called “our Wisdom” by St. Paul, not because He is personally described in the OT as such, but because, in the light of the experience of His coming, He can be seen to fulfil the descriptions of the OT Wisdom in His own character. ##
 
Hi, Gottle of Geer,

To me, the most astounding words in the NT,
outside of “He who sees Me, sees the Father,”
are those of St. John, recognizing Jesus as the
“Word” of God.

The Greek word, “Logos”, which is translated in
English as “Word”, means, in essence, the
“informing principle” of Creation…the “hard-wiring”
of Creation…that which gives organization,
“life”,…it’s astounding. The terminology comes
from Greek philosophy, especially Aristotle.]

Science looks for the ‘laws’ governing nature, and
that can be a noble pursuit in some ways.

But the ‘laws’ of nature pale in comparison with
the fact that the ‘informing principle’ is not a
‘force’, but a Person, in Christian theology.
Absolutely astounding.

Just a thought,
reen12
 
Although the Holy Spirit was called God’s Wisdom, by Theophilus of Antioch (A.D. 181), To Autolycus, chapter 2, “The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, His Word, and His Wisdom,” it is more usualIy understood that Wisdom refers to Jesus Christ, as in Justin Martyr (A.D. 155), Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, chapter 61:

“I shall give you another testimony, my friends,” said I, "from the Scriptures, that God begat before all creatures a Beginning, [who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos; and on another occasion He calls Himself Captain, when He appeared in human form to Joshua the son of Nave (Nun). For He can be called by all those names, since He ministers to the Father’s will, and since He was begotten of the Father by an act of will; just as we see happening among ourselves: for when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by abscission, so as to lessen the word [which remains] in us, when we give it out: and just as we see also happening in the case of a fire, which is not lessened when it has kindled [another], but remains the same; and that which has been kindled by it likewise appears to exist by itself, not diminishing that from which it was kindled. The Word of Wisdom, who is Himself this God begotten of the Father of all things, and Word, and Wisdom, and Power, and the Glory of the Begetter, will bear evidence to me, when He speaks by Solomon the following:
‘If I [Wisdom] shall declare to you what happens daily, I shall call to mind events from everlasting, and review them. The Lord made me the beginning of His ways for His works. From everlasting He established me in the beginning, before He had made the earth, and before He had made the deeps, before the springs of the waters had issued forth, before the mountains had been established. Before all the hills He begets me. God made the country, and the desert, and the highest inhabited places under the sky. When He made ready the heavens, I was along with Him, and when He set up His throne on the winds: when He made the high clouds strong, and the springs of the deep safe, when He made the foundations of the earth, I was with Him arranging. I was that in which He rejoiced; daily and at all times I delighted in His countenance, because He delighted in the finishing of the habitable world, and delighted in the sons of men. Now, therefore, O son, hear me. Blessed is the man who shall listen to me, and the mortal who shall keep my ways, watching daily at my doors, observing the posts of my ingoings. For my outgoings are the outgoings of life, and [my] will has been prepared by the Lord. But they who sin against me, trespass against their own souls; and they who hate me love death.’ [Proverbs 8:22-31]

 
Grace & Peace!

I’ve struggled with this one as well, and I’ve had a variety of thoughts on the matter–some more heretical than others (hence rejected!)–like the idea that Sophia and Logos are both modes of the Son–but that tends to introduce, however subtly, a fourth into the Trinity. I think, therefore, it’s suspect (to say the least).

I think there is a question that must be asked, though–are we talking about primordial Wisdom or created wisdom? The primordial Wisdom is I think more properly attributed to the Son, for the Son is the Wisdom of the Father. Todd’s Justin quotation is a great support for this.

Regarding created wisdom, I often think that the perfect image for this is the Theotokos with her Child. Not the Theotokos alone, but Mary with Christ. Created wisdom reveals the Creator, and finds its meaning in the Creator. I can think of no better image of this, then, than Our Lady with Our Lord. To me, that is Sophia.

–Mark

Deo Gratias!
 
Christ spoke of Wisdom, and quoted from Wisdom a few times too, I believe. I’ve wondered myself what the connection is there, other than the fact that Christ was using the OT to teach from.
 
Hi, Deo Volente,

quote: Deo Volente
I’ve struggled with this one as well, and I’ve had a variety of thoughts on the matter–some more heretical than others (hence rejected!)–like the idea that Sophia and Logos are both modes of the Son–but that tends to introduce, however subtly, a fourth into the Trinity. I think, therefore, it’s suspect (to say the least).
The difficulty may lie in the word “mode.” as in “modes of
the Son…”

A human being has to think in terms of “modes”, because
a human is not “pure Being”.

To say that Christ is the “informing principle” of Creation,
is in the realm of Being, not “function.”

Hmmm. I wonder if we could say:
Jesus, as informing principle, is a metaphsyical Reality,
which because He exists, effects the material world
by an act of the Father’s will. Not “function” or “mode” but
*what *exists because He exists…as the rays of the
sun “emanate” from the sun, as part of “sun-ness”,
ie what it is to
be
a star we call “sun.”

It’s a paltry analogy, with reference to the Being Who
always was, and always will be - but I guess that’s the
nature of being human…we can only form analogies
from what we experience.

Just my thought,

reen12
 
I’m content to say the personification of Wisdom was a pre-figure or “type” of Christ but not a reference to Him as, for example, Isaiah referred to Him directly as the spirit of wisdom, fortitude, knowledge, understanding, piety, counsel, and fear of the Lord.

Two different [wisdoms], in my book.

But the Catholic tradition has always seen Greek philosophy, even secular works of art such as the Aeneid and the poems of Homer as a shadowy yearning and even pre-figue of the messiah.
 
Dear adnauseum,

quote: adnauseum
But the Catholic tradition has always seen …], even secular works of art such as the Aeneid and the poems of Homer as a shadowy yearning and even pre-figue of the messiah.
I didn’t know that about the Aeneid and Homer’s poems.
Most interesting,

reen12

Isn’t it nice, how one gets to learn so many things on
the Forums? Sometimes it’s something totally new
[as in the above] and sometimes, a poster gives me greater
insight into something I already know a fair amount about.
All the way round, it’s grand.
 
As for the feminine pronoun… “wisdom” in Hebrew is a feminine noun, so we do not need to ascribe too much to the fact that Wisdom is represented as a woman. It may still (and int he Christian tradition does) find a link to Christ.
 
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