Isaiah 22

[Buzzard]

**

**

~{Isaiah 22:17}~

**
**17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, **

and will surely cover thee.
**18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: **

there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord’s house.
19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down.
**20 And it shall come to pass in that day, **

that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
**21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, **

and I will commit thy government into his hand:

**and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of **Jerusalem,

and to the house of Judah.
**22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; **

**so he shall open, and none shall shut; **

and he shall shut, and none shall open.
**23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; **

and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.

• For the vessels, cups and flagons, the issue and the offspring****see the Sanctuary Service of the old Testament

**24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father’s house, **

**the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, **

from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.
**25 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, **

**shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; **

and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

• The nail fastened, that was cut down was the Levitical Priesthood

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[Buzzard]

and I will commit thy government into his hand
and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, :

~{Isaiah 9:6}~
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:

and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called

Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,

upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom,

to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder;

• so he shall open, and none shall shut;
• and he shall shut, and none shall open

The only Apostle to refer to this passage is John

~{Rev.3:7}~

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write;

These things saith he that is holy, he that is true,

he that hath the key of David,

he that openeth, and no man shutteth;

and shutteth, and no man openeth;

lets compare the two
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder
he that hath the key of David,

–~{Isaiah 22:22}~ ------------------- ~{Rev.3:7}~–
so he shall open ---------------- he that openeth
and none shall shut ---------- and no man shutteth
and he shall shut ---------------- and shutteth
and none shall open ----------- and no man openeth

I think it is obvious that John is drawing from Isaiah

And referring to Christ.

 

[jimmy]

Hello Buzzard, welcome to Catholic forums.

I have heard Scott Hahn draw a comparison between Matt16, where Peter recieves the Keys, and Isaiah22, with the key of the house of David.

Reading this here I just noticed that there is also a similarity between Peter being given the ability to bind and to loose in Matt16

19

And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. *

and in Isaiah it says “**so he shall open, and none shall shut; **and he shall shut, and none shall open.”

There is an incredible link here.

 

[Todd_Easton]

The imagery of Revelation 3:7 does seem to be taken from Isaiah 22:22.

Isaiah 22:15-25 refers to a change in chief stewards in the royal household during the reign of King Hezekiah. It was the chief steward’s job to take care of things in the royal household when the king was away.

In Matthew 16:18-19 and Luke 12:41-48, Jesus’s words to Peter are similar to those used in Isaiah 22:15-25 regarding the chief steward of the royal household:
Isaiah 22:15, 18: Thus says the Lord GOD of hosts, “Come, go to this steward, to Shebna, who is over the household, and say to him:…you shame of your master’s house.”
Luke 12:41-43: Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.
Jesus is setting Peter over his Church to take care of things in the Church until his Second Coming.

Isaiah 22:22: And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David*; he shall open, and none shall shut**; and he shall shut, and none shall open***.
Matthew 16:19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven*, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven***, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven**.
Jesus gives the keys of his kingdom to Peter to take care of things in the Church until his Second Coming but, as mentioned in Revelation 3:7, Jesus retains a set of keys as well.

Isaiah 22:23-25: And I will fasten him like a peg in a sure place*, and he will become a throne of honor to his father’s house. And they will hang on him the whole weight of his father’s house**, the offspring and issue, every small vessel, from the cups to all the flagons. In that day, says the LORD of hosts, the peg that was fastened in a sure place will give way; and it will be cut down and fall, and the burden that was upon it will be cut off***, for the LORD has spoken."
Matthew 16:18: And I tell you, you are Peter =Rock], and on this rock I will build my church**, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it**.
Whereas King Hezekiah’s new chief steward would eventually fail, Jesus’ chief steward and his Church would never fail.
An interesting historical development is that Peter’s successors were from an early time called Popes, from the Greek *papas *or father. Isaiah 22:21-22 says, “and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.”

 

[Buzzard]

Todd Easton:

The imagery of Revelation 3:7 does seem to be taken from Isaiah 22:22.

Isaiah 22:15-25 refers to a change in chief stewards in the royal household during the reign of King Hezekiah. It was the chief steward’s job to take care of things in the royal household when the king was away.

Ahhhhh, but christ is not away
he is with us even too the end of the world,
2nd
it was the Holy Ghost that was to come and be the Guide to the church until Christ comes and takes the reigns for himself

as to Tutors and Governors

~{Galations 4:1}~
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child,
differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under Tutors and Governors
until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children,
were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come,
God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

that the reason there are no more Tutors, Governors nor Stewards
haveing “Dominion Over” the family of God

~{Matt.20:25}~
But Jesus called them unto him, and said,
Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you:

 

[Todd_Easton]

Buzzard:

Ahhhhh, but christ is not away
he is with us even too the end of the world,
2nd
it was the Holy Ghost that was to come and be the Guide to the church until Christ comes and takes they reigns for himself

as to Tutors and Governors

The Holy Spirit guides the Church through her ordained leaders.

Question: When the Church was seriously divided over the issue of circumcising Gentile converts, how did the Holy Spirit guide the Church?
Answer: The Apostles and presbyters of the Church met in Jerusalem and under the leadership of Peter decided the issue and their decision was delivered to the brethern to be observed.

Acts 15:1-2 says:But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the presbyters about this question.

In Acts 15:28, they wrote, in part:For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:

In Acts 16:4, it says:As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and presbyters who were at Jerusalem.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Buzzard:

there are no more Tutors, Governors nor Stewards
haveing “Dominion Over” the family of God

Galatians 4:1-4 and Matthew 20:25-26 do not mean what you think they mean.

The “guardians and trustees” mentioned in Galations 4:2 whom Christians are no longer under does not refer to human authorities but to “the elemental spirits of the universe” and “the Law” mentioned in verses 3 and 4.

1 Thes 5:12-13 clearly says that there are those who are over you in the Lord,
But we beseech you, brethren, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work.

Hebrews 13:17 commands us,
Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you.
In Matthew 20:25-26, Jesus was not saying that there would not be men who are “great” or “first” among Christians, i.e., in positions of authority in his Church, but that those who are Church leaders must serve those who are under their authority and not lord their authority over them and abuse them the way Gentile princes do. Christian leaders are called “not to be served but to serve,” as is clear from the part of the verse 26 you left out of your quote and verses 27 and 28 that immediately follow.

Jesus gives a similar command to Peter in Luke 12:41-48, when he tells Peter, the chief steward over his household, to take care of his Church, to give his household “thier portion of food at the proper time,” and not “to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk.” Otherwise, Jesus said he would come when his chief steward “does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful.”

Ephesians 4:11-14 makes it clear that Church leaders are a necessary gift from God to keep Christians from being “tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine” saying:
And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ.
Paul speaks of the authority given to him by the Lord for the building up of the Church in 2 Cor 10:8 and 2 Cor 13:10.

In 3 John 1:9, John also speaks of his authority, saying:
I have written something to the church; but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge my authority.

Likewise, Jude condemns those Christians who “reject authority” in the Church comparing them to those who perished “in Koran’s rebellion.” (Jude 1:8,11) Recall that Koran rejected the authority of Moses and Aaron saying to them, “You have gone too far! For all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them; why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the LORD?” (Numbers 16:3)

 

[Todd_Easton]

Buzzard:

Ahhhhh, but christ is not away

he is with us even too the end of the world,

You are partially correct. Jesus Christ is still present with us in many real and powerful but hidden ways. He is present within each Christian. He is present in the least of our brothers and sisters. He is present when two or more Christians pray together. He is present when the words of Sacred Scripture are read, especially the Gospels. He is present when his ordained Church leaders speak in His name. He is present in the Eucharist under the appearance of bread and wine. However, in all of these ways his presence is only visible through the eyes of faith. At the end of time, Jesus will return from heaven and be visibly present to all, believer and unbeliever alike.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Buzzard:

there are no more Tutors, Governors nor Stewards
haveing “Dominion Over” the family of God

1 Thes 5:12-13 says:
But we beseech you, brethren, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work.
Hebrews 13:17 commands us:
Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Galatians 4:1-4 and Matthew 20:25-26 really don’t mean what you think they mean.

In Gal 4:1-4, Paul compares our bondage to “the elements of the universe” and to “the Law” before Christ came to that of a child who is under tutors and governors until the time appointed by the child’s father. Paul is not saying that Christians no longer need human tutors or governors.

In fact, Paul says that authoritative leaders in the Church are a necessary gift from God in Ephesians 4:11-14:
And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, …so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine,
In Matt 20:25-28, Jesus does not say that there would be no authoritative leaders in the Church but that those who are Church leaders, those who are “great” and “first” in the Church, must not act like the Gentile princes who lord their authority over those under them and abuse them but Church leaders must follow his own example, “not to be served but to serve.”

Jesus mentions this in Luke 12:41-46 where he sets Peter as chief steward over his household, the Church, and tells Peter to give his household “their food at the proper time” and not “to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk.” Otherwise, Jesus says he "will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful. "

In 3 John 1:9, John speaks against Diotrephes who does not acknowledge John’s authority. And in Jude 8 and 11, those who “reject authority” are condemned like those who perished “in Korah’s rebellion.” Remember that Korah rejected the authority of Moses and Aaron, saying to them, “You have gone too far! For all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them; why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the LORD?” (Number 16:3)

Recall too that Philippians 1:1 is addressed to “all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philip’pi, with the bishops and deacons.” Bishop means overseer.

 

[excatholic]

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This is what I believe the prophet is saying in Isaiah 22

Vs.15-21 Shebna and Eliakim were two men of state in Israel. Eliakim is “God’s choice” and Shebna is “moved on.” Far fulfillment: Shebna is a type of Antichrist, and even as he will come and be hailed, he will be destroyed and the true Messiah will come. Eliakim is a type of Jesus Christ. <o></o>

Vs.22-23 Jesus picks this up when He talks to church of Philadelphia in Revelation 3. Jesus takes these words and applies them to Himself in Revelation 3.

Mat.16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The scholarly apologists of the RCC will tell you that this scripture has been miss-interpreted. Peter, by His own testimony, did not see himself as the rock on which the church was founded; he says that we are living stones, but Jesus is the cornerstone (1 Peter 2:4-7) The words this rock have been the source of much controversy; it is best to see them as referring to either Jesus Himself (perhaps Jesus gesturing to Himself as He said this), or as referring to Peter’s confession of who Jesus is. The power for binding and loosing may also be thought of in a rabbinic sense; of being able to set the boundaries authoritatively for the New Covenant community - this was the authority given to the apostles and prophets to build a foundation (Ephesians 2:20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone. Jesus also says that Peter has the keys of the kingdom of heaven; this isn’t that he admits people to heaven, but that Peter opened the door of the kingdom to both the Jews (Acts 2:38-39) and the Gentiles (Acts10:34-44) by his recognition of the Messiah. Jesus simply stated that if Peter was able to recognize the Messiah, the rest of us could as well. The Old Testament is fraught with scripture making reference to the Lord being the Rock. Surely you don’t think Peter was, or is the Lord?

 

[Church_Militant]

Ex…It’s me again…

Check out the OT about what it means when a king gives the keys of his kingdom to a minister…it means that from that time on that minister speaks with the same authority as the king himself. we didn’t make that up…it’s the plain old truth.

 

[Church_Militant]

And obviously we never have confused Peter w/ the Lord.

You seem to forget that the apostles & the Lord all spoke Aramaic…not Greek…hence when Matthew wrote his gospel it was in Aramaic and so we see that Jesus called Simon “Kepha”. aramaic doesn’t have the gender problems that Greek does and so that whole argument about big & little rocks crumbles before the truth.

If Peter didn’t see himself as an authority, then why did he settle the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15…they all fell silent…

As you have come off w/ alll the stuff your pastor & teachers have told you when they are in error themselves. Did you even bother to read the tracts about this topic on this very site.

www.catholic.com/library/church_papacy.asp

If you can read all thses tracts and answer them w/ something that holds real water then maybe you can talk about this topic.

Look…I realize that you’re scared …it juts MIGHT make sense…The Catholics just MIGHT be right…& your Prot friends (God love 'em) might be leading you astray. It made me really mad at first, still does a little, but you HAVE TO be honest & read & consider BOTH sides of this.

I KNOW for a fact that if I’d known at 17 what I know now, I would NEVER have left the Church. Now, there’s no way in the cosmos that i would ever be anything but a Catholic…because…it’s ALL true…Every blessed bit of it. I believe that some Prots know it & aren’t as honest as Scott & Kimberly Hahn were. I have all the admiration in the world for them & pray for them daily…just like I pray for you every day.

Stick around. I’ll have all the admiration in the world for you too.

 

[jimmy]

Yes the Petros vs. Petra arguement that Petros means little rock is meaningless. In Greek petra is a feminine noun and petros is a masculine noun. You do not use a feminine noun to describe a man. It just does not work with the language.

 

[Church_Militant]

Thanks for the back-up Jimmy!

Deo Gratias,

Michael

 

[porthos11]

jimmy:

Yes the Petros vs. Petra arguement that Petros means little rock is meaningless. In Greek petra is a feminine noun and petros is a masculine noun. You do not use a feminine noun to describe a man. It just does not work with the language.

And then only in Attic Greek. Koine Greek does not have this problem. Stone in Koine is “lithos”, not “petra”.

The New Testament is written in Koine Greek.

 

[jimmy]

porthos11:

And then only in Attic Greek. Koine Greek does not have this problem. Stone in Koine is “lithos”, not “petra”.

The New Testament is written in Koine Greek.

I am actually taking koine Greek right now. I have noticed the lithos.

 

[Buzzard]

Todd Easton:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=300079&postcount=4

The imagery of Revelation 3:7 does seem to be taken from Isaiah 22:22.

Isaiah 22:15-25 refers to a change in chief stewards in the royal household during the reign of King Hezekiah. It was the chief steward’s job to take care of things in the royal household when the king was away.

In Matthew 16:18-19 and Luke 12:41-48, Jesus’s words to Peter are similar to those used in Isaiah 22:15-25 regarding the chief steward of the royal household:

Isaiah 22:15, 18: Thus says the Lord GOD of hosts, “Come, go to this steward, to Shebna, who is over the household, and say to him:…you shame of your master’s house.”

Luke 12:41-43: Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.

Jesus is setting Peter over his Church to take care of things in the Church until his Second Coming.

Todd;

Now lets don’t take things out of context,

There is no doubt he will appoint men over the kingdom at his 2nd coming

even the portion of Luke you quoted says this

• Blessed is that servant whom his master "when he comes" will find so doing.

next post,
lets get the Parable up here for reference

 

[Buzzard]

~{Luke 12:36}~
And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding;

—{For the Wedding see Matt.22:1-14}—

that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching:

*verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, *

and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so,

blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come,

• ~{1Thes.5:2}~ **For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
  *But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

*41 Then Peter said unto him, *

Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
*42 And the Lord said, *

***Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, ***

to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

Next post;
lets get Matthews account of the same teaching

 

[Buzzard]

~{Matt.24:32}~

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree;

He said learn, not just read

When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves,

ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things,

know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you,

This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

~{2Peter 3:10}~

• *But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;

in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,*

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man,

no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking,

marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;

so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come,

he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

~{1Thes.5:2}~
**For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant,

whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

From Luke Ch 12:42

**Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household,

to give them their portion of meat in due season**?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

Todd;

Peter may have been as you said

Jesus is setting Peter over his Church to take care of things in the Church until his Second Coming.

But you will never prove it from that Parable,

In fact it says the exact opposite

Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household,

At his 2nd coming; and not until

 

[Buzzard]

Christ told another parable somewhat the same, but it deals with the Church until he comes

~{Matt.25:14}~

For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country,

who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one;

to every man according to his several ability;

and straightway took his journey.

And you know the rest of the story
Notice ****he did not put all his goods
in the care of only ****One Servant
-----{Peter}----
nor did he place ****One Servant
****as Lord over the others
He left his goods “divided” amongst his Servants,
As he saw fit
And each one was given and had complete control
over how he used the portion given to him by the master,
And answerable ****only too the Master,

• For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country,
  who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
• Or as it Paul says
  ~{Eph.4:11}~
  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
  12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: