Isaiah 7:14 and St. Jerome

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[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 7:14[/BIBLEDRB]

Jerome’s interpretation was that almah had a double sense of both marriageable (nubilis) and concealed, that is, a “hidden-away virgin” (virgin abscondida).

As I understand it, St. Jerome issued a challenge on the translation of almah in Isaiah 7:14 to the effect that if it meant anything other than a virgin, he would “own my words”.

Did anyone ever take him up on his challenge?
 
ChrisCath said:
[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 7:14[/BIBLEDRB]

Jerome’s interpretation was that almah had a double sense of both marriageable (nubilis) and concealed, that is, a “hidden-away virgin” (virgin abscondida).

As I understand it, St. Jerome issued a challenge on the translation of almah in Isaiah 7:14 to the effect that if it meant anything other than a virgin, he would “own my words”.

Did anyone ever take him up on his challenge?
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I would be curious as to the source of your information.
 
Dave_Noonan said:
I would be curious as to the source of your information.
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It was from a commentary by Witham. I didn’t have it handy when I first posted. And Witham didn’t reference Jerome’s particular work, just quoted him.

And as I see it now, Jerome said he would “own his ignorance” if proved incorrect.

I like using Jerome as an authority, and I find it hard to believe that he didn’t have a grasp of almah in OT usage. But I’ve heard it argued that alma/almah is used in the OT for non-virgins, which would put his remark in question.

I’ve not found any discussion of this issue anywhere, so if someone has information or a link, I’d appreciate it.
 
ChrisCath said:
It was from a commentary by Witham. I didn’t have it handy when I first posted. And Witham didn’t reference Jerome’s particular work, just quoted him.

And as I see it now, Jerome said he would “own his ignorance” if proved incorrect.

I like using Jerome as an authority, and I find it hard to believe that he didn’t have a grasp of almah in OT usage. But I’ve heard it argued that alma/almah is used in the OT for non-virgins, which would put his remark in question.

I’ve not found any discussion of this issue anywhere, so if someone has information or a link, I’d appreciate it.
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That’s pretty simple because there aren’t a lot of instances of the word, so you can look up the contexts for yourself and reach your own conclusions. Here’s what I would conclude:

Gen. 24:43 Potential wife for Isaac, definitely assumed to be a virgin
Ex. 2:8 Moses’ sister, probably also assumed to be a virgin.
Is. 7:4 (The passage in question, in its context in Isa. doesn’t seem viriginal to me.)
Ps. 68:25 Tamborine-playing young women. I wouldn’t know what to conclude here.
Prov. 30:19 Hmmm, doesn’t sound particularly virginal to me.
Song of Songs 1:3; seems virginal
Song of Songs 6:8; also of questionable virginity since “almah” is used in parallel with queens and concubines, who would definitely not be virgins.

I would conclude there’s no out-and-out example of a woman who the reader knows unequivocally has had sex and yet is still referred to as almah. On the other hand, there are some situations where it certainly could be true.

I would say that Jerome’s logic on the “hiddenness” implied in almah is completely undermined by Ps. 68:25 and in Prov. 30:19.
 
In general, the point of having young maidens playing tambourines in Temple processions was that, during the procession, the good girls who usually stayed home were able to have fun in a public yet safe way. After the procession wound up to the Temple and back outside the city, the girls would dance together, and the young men were allowed to come talk to them.

So yeah, young women playing tambourines in processions are praising God and looking for husbands.

And yeah, several Bible translations that aren’t Catholic translate it as “virgins”.

As for Songs 6:7/6:8, I guarantee you that every big huge king’s harem was full of virgins. They might not stay virgins for long after they get there, but then again, they might. There were usually tons sent to the king and hanging around, waiting to be called upon.

This actually was a major personnel problem in China’s Forbidden City. The Chinese emperors had so many young virginal wife and concubine candidates sent to them that frankly, they never got around to consummating the marriage with most of them. Sometimes they would convert some spare concubines into wives for their lords or for foreign leaders. (Because obviously they wouldn’t send their own daughters to marry barbarian kings, but some random noble lady or beautiful peasant could be easily dubbed a “princess” and sent out.)

Sorry to be so outspoken about this, but I like to be clear.
 
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