Ishmael -- making of him a great nation?

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I copied and pasted the section of today’s reading that I am having trouble understanding. First, I always thought Isaac was the chosen son…and Ishmael was not…but according to this reading, can one presume that that is not true? I thought that God was not happy with Abraham for sleeping with Hagar? Please clarify the meaning of the bolded lines, especially…thanks!🙂

Reading 1
Gn 21:5, 8-20a

Early the next morning Abraham got some bread and a skin of water
and gave them to Hagar.
Then, placing the child on her back, he sent her away.
As she roamed aimlessly in the wilderness of Beer-sheba,
the water in the skin was used up.
So she put the child down under a shrub,
and then went and sat down opposite him, about a bowshot away;
for she said to herself, “Let me not watch to see the child die.”
As she sat opposite Ishmael, he began to cry.
**God heard the boy’s cry,
and God’s messenger called to Hagar from heaven:
“What is the matter, Hagar?
Don’t be afraid; God has heard the boy’s cry in this plight of his.
Arise, lift up the boy and hold him by the hand;
for I will make of him a great nation.”**Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water.
She went and filled the skin with water, and then let the boy drink.

God was with the boy as he grew up.

God was with the boy as he grew up.
 
God heard the boy’s cry,
and God’s messenger called to Hagar from heaven:
“What is the matter, Hagar?
Don’t be afraid; God has heard the boy’s cry in this plight of his.
Arise, lift up the boy and hold him by the hand;
for I will make of him a great nation.”

whatevergirl,

Your are correct in saying Isaac was the Son promised to Abraham. But I believe that God extended his promise to Ishmael.

Sarah and Abraham tried to solve the problem thereselves not fully understanding and trusting in Gods plan. Within the culture this practice ( of giving a maidservant ) was not unheard of. Surgate birthing is not a new idea. Isaac was part of Gods plan Ishmael was not. but because he was the son of Abraham God granted him the same promise as Isaac.

This to me is another testimony of how God keeps his promises even when we are unfaithful.
 
whatevergirl said:
I copied and pasted the section of today’s reading that I am having trouble understanding. First, I always thought Isaac was the chosen son…and Ishmael was not…but according to this reading, can one presume that that is not true? I thought that God was not happy with Abraham for sleeping with Hagar? Please clarify the meaning of the bolded lines, especially…thanks!🙂

Reading 1
Gn 21:5, 8-20a

Early the next morning Abraham got some bread and a skin of water
and gave them to Hagar.
Then, placing the child on her back, he sent her away.
As she roamed aimlessly in the wilderness of Beer-sheba,
the water in the skin was used up.
So she put the child down under a shrub,
and then went and sat down opposite him, about a bowshot away;
for she said to herself, “Let me not watch to see the child die.”
As she sat opposite Ishmael, he began to cry.
**God heard the boy’s cry,
and God’s messenger called to Hagar from heaven:
“What is the matter, Hagar?
Don’t be afraid; God has heard the boy’s cry in this plight of his.
Arise, lift up the boy and hold him by the hand;
for I will make of him a great nation.”**Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water.
She went and filled the skin with water, and then let the boy drink.

God was with the boy as he grew up.

God was with the boy as he grew up.
Click to expand...
Indeed, they have become a great nation. This is what we know of as the Arab nations today, still at war with the Sons of the Promise.
 
God is the God of all people and all nations. Jesus came to redeem all of mankind, not just the jews…

There are many connections and references to a world peopled outside the Hebrew people. The Hebrew people recieved he message [revelation] of God. They are called to be a “light unto the nations” Or as Jesus reminded the samaritan women…“Salvation came from the Jews” who worshipped what they “knew” The rest of the world has to learn the message of salvation…just a couple of examples…

Abraham
Issaac, who becomes a father of the Hebrew people
Ishmael who becomes a father of nations

Moses:
Marries a non jewish wife whose skin is black …and “black is beautiful” as scripture tells us!

The geneologies of Jesus contain women [not all Jewish and not all scandal free!] that illustrate the "Universality" of our Lord.

The Samaritans were “half breed Jews” born of the babylonian conquest.

Do not let your heart and/or faith be troubled…

Just some quick thoughts [off the ucff], without doing some scripture searches…PAX
 
guanophore said:
Indeed, they have become a great nation. This is what we know of as the Arab nations today, still at war with the Sons of the Promise.
Click to expand...
We shouldn’t automatically think that just because God promised to make a great nation out of Ishmael - which ultimately became the Arab nations - that God intended to make Islam a great religion. No matter how Muslims slice it, Islam will always be identified with Arabs - Pakistani, Indonesian, whatever…In fact, any reading of the ancient historian Herodotus reveals that many practices common in Islam today were prevalent even amongst the 4th Century BC Persians (e.g., no images, no altars, disgrace for lying, single-mindedness in worship, etc.)

Consider this:

Ishmael was the son of a slave. Ishmael is known as the father of the Arabs, and from Arabs came Islam. But what is the common relationship between Muslims and Allah? Is it not one of “slave” (Abdullah) and Master (Rabb)?

However, Isaac, being the true son of Abraham and Sarah, considers God much more personally - as a “Father.” There is no coincidence here.
 
Epistemes said:
Consider this:

Ishmael was the son of a slave. Ishmael is known as the father of the Arabs, and from Arabs came Islam. But what is the common relationship between Muslims and Allah? Is it not one of “slave” (Abdullah) and Master (Rabb)?

However, Isaac, being the true son of Abraham and Sarah, considers God much more personally - as a “Father.” There is no coincidence here.
Click to expand...
Good point!

That’s why it’s considered offensive for a Muslim to hear someone refer to God as “Abba” or “Father”. Allah is their Master…
 
I agree. The promise was not exactly the same. But God did promise the son of Abraham would become a great nation. By reading the entire Old Testament we know the nation of Israel came from Isaac, but from this pasage we see that God also chose to give Ishmael the same promise( to make him a great nation. Being a great nation does not mean being the chosen nation.

Gods chosen people is and always will be the nation of Israel , when it comes to bringing salvation to the world through Jesus Christ.

If you read on into the 25th chapter of Genesis you will see recorded that Ishmael had “12” sons.

What I find interesting is that God gave Ishamel 12 sons . It took another generation before the leaders of the 12 tribes of Israel came along.

Also in the same chapter you will find that Isaac and Ishmael buried their father together( v.7).
 
guanophore said:
Indeed, they have become a great nation. This is what we know of as the Arab nations today, still at war with the Sons of the Promise.
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly…this is more of what I was inferring. Thanks for clarifying everyone!
 
Verisimilitude said:
The promise was not the same.
Click to expand...
Indeed.

God promised to make of Ishmael a great nation and that has indeed been fulfilled. The Arabs are a people to reckon with.

But the covenant promise of salvation was to come through Isaac. It was through Isaac that God through Abraham blessed all the nations.

Ishmael’s nation will not contribute to the salvation of mankind.
 
*But the covenant promise of salvation was to come through Isaac. It was through Isaac that God through Abraham blessed all the nations.

Ishmael’s nation will not contribute to the salvation of mankind.*

I thought that’s what I said.
 
Technically, when the Arabs/Moors conquered Southern Europe along the Mediterean coast, they mixed with the Caucasian people. So almost all Spanish/Latino and Italian people can trace part of their roots back to the Arabs therefore Ishmael–not all are Islamic many are Catholic. Many are spread all throughout the world, not just in the Middle East if you are going by genetics.
 
cruisin said:
I thought that’s what I said.
Click to expand...
I think the distinction being made is the promise God made to Abraham, in that his offspring would number as grains of sand on the shore is different than the legitimate birthright Isaac received from Abraham in which salvation was to be revealed to the world.

That is my distinction at least.
 
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