Islam (again)

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dear planten,i like u because u r liberal muslim.but ur informations about ahle hadiths are incorrect.like all muslim they also obey quran 1st.&after quran they believe only shahih hadith(the pure 6)with reidhus salehin etc.anyway i really don’t know the difference between hadith&sunnah!aren’t they same?i know sunnah means hadith.atleast my family&relatives taught me that.anyway sister amy also ahle hadith,she told me in another thread.
 
dear planten,i like u because u r liberal muslim.but ur informations about ahle hadiths are incorrect.like all muslim they also obey quran 1st.&after quran they believe only shahih hadith(the pure 6)with reidhus salehin etc.anyway i really don’t know the difference between hadith&sunnah!aren’t they same?i know sunnah means hadith.atleast my family&relatives taught me that.anyway sister amy also ahle hadith,she told me in another thread.
You are right. That is what the Ahle Hadith say. They say that Sunnah and Hadith is the same. But it is not. Hadith is to be found in the six books. They are the description of the sayings and doings of the prophet.

But there is another thing which even though not written down, is available from the very first day, that is the practice of the prophet, i.e. the way he did everything and the people saw and copied that, all of them in big numbers.

The Hadith were collected very late and Hadith were known only to some people who related them and passed them on untill they were collected and compiled and written down in books. That was done after 200 years.

But even without those Hadith or books of Hadith, every one knew how to pray or fast or perform Hajj. It was known by observance of the prophets actions.

Anyhow, it a deep subject. The Ahle Hadith, when they find losing ground, they say that Hadith and Sunnah is the same. It is not.

Even if it could be called on and same thing then it can still be divided into two parts.

One concerns the practice of the prophet i.e. Sunnah. The other concerns the spoken words of the prophet.i.e Hadith. So which one will take precedence? It will be the Sunnah.

The Ahle Sunnah do not neglect the Hadith. They only give it a third place in importance. That is all.
 
Educated men convert to Islam because they fall for an attractive Muslim girl. I have noticed an increase of expatriates (of European descent and other Western countries) in Singapore marrying Malay-Muslim girls (Chinese girls being the most common), because they consider them “exotic and submissive” (a truly uneducated stereotype of Asian women to be honest) unlike the girls back in their homelands. It is also not uncommon here that Imams in mosques preach about “letting their daughters marry someone outside their faith” so that their daughters be the tools of conversion through marriage and birth. Its no wonder then that the Islamic population is rising. Most Muslim families here have up to 5-8 children. Plus the fact that our government gives them heavy subsidy (because of their status as natives) unlike members of other faiths or race.
 
inJESUS;3967239:
Observance was by watching and copying. It was done by all at all times, from generation to generation till today. There was no need of any book for that. That is called Sunnah.
The thing called Sunnah in Islam is the equivalent of speculation then.
 
So a “sunnah” is the equivalent of Christian oral tradition? Ironically, Muslims deny that Christians actually have an oral tradition or that it has been “corrupted” and “added to” alongside the Bible. Why is that, eh?
 
inJESUS;3967239:
Observance was by watching and copying. It was done by all at all times, from generation to generation till today. There was no need of any book for that. That is called Sunnah.
yea, and how would you know which Isamic nation is observing the correct sunnah in this world of oh so many Muslims contradicting Muhammad?
 
Hi Cathopologist,
I’m sorry my ignorance by your words. Did you say that westerners married Muslim-girls which are chinese descent in Singapore??
Because based on what I know that many westerners married asian women who are chinese descent will not convert them to be muslim. But yes, if they married with Malay women and who are muslim then they will be muslim. And it doesn’t happen only in Singapore but in Indonesia too as I mentioned before.

And in China, yes there’s one race or area which people are muslim (Sin Khiang, sorry I’m not sure how to write in alphabeth).
Educated men convert to Islam because they fall for an attractive Muslim girl. I have noticed an increase of expatriates (of European descent and other Western countries) in Singapore marrying Malay-Muslim girls (Chinese girls being the most common), because they consider them “exotic and submissive” (a truly uneducated stereotype of Asian women to be honest) unlike the girls back in their homelands. .
 
Hi Cathopologist,
I’m sorry my ignorance by your words. Did you say that westerners married Muslim-girls which are chinese descent in Singapore??
Because based on what I know that many westerners married asian women who are chinese descent will not convert them to be muslim. But yes, if they married with Malay women and who are muslim then they will be muslim. And it doesn’t happen only in Singapore but in Indonesia too as I mentioned before.

And in China, yes there’s one race or area which people are muslim (Sin Khiang, sorry I’m not sure how to write in alphabeth).
Hi Wina,
I apologize for not being clear. What i meant is that most Westerners here marry are Chinese women. Westerners who are married to Malay-Muslim women are most likely to convert to Islam (in most cases for ceremonial purposes).

Yes, actually i know a couple of Chinese-Muslim men. One is a convert through marriage (although he never practiced the religion). The other is a 73 year old security guard that i have become friends with who works at the condo apartments across the road. He’s of Sin Kiang descent. I have much respect and fondness for him.
 
Observance was by watching and copying. It was done by all at all times, from generation to generation till today. There was no need of any book for that. That is called Sunnah.
This is to refresh planten mind:

…his sunna or way (Allah bless him and give him peace) is preserved not only in the hadith, but first and foremost in the Qur’an, for as Aisha (Allah be well pleased with her) notes in the hadith of al-Bukhari, "His character was the Qur’an”.
masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/hadith.htm

…For example, prayers, both individual and congregatory, were taught by Muhammad to his followers by practical example and since then have been transmitted generation-to-generation through practical learning. Their documentation in form of Hadith only happened later….”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah
 
This is to refresh planten mind:

"…his sunna or way (Allah bless him and give him peace) is preserved not only in the hadith, but first and foremost in the Qur’an, for as Aisha (Allah be well pleased with her) notes in the hadith of al-Bukhari, “His character was the Qur’an”.
masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/hadith.htm

…For example, prayers, both individual and congregatory, were taught by Muhammad to his followers by practical example and since then have been transmitted generation-to-generation through practical learning. Their documentation in form of Hadith only happened later…”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah
Thanks. Seems to be right. Well Done.
 
I really honestly believe that christians in the west turn to an islam that is a gross misrepresentation of what islam in the middle east really is.

To be honest I have travelled to the middle east and I find islam as it is practiced there to be repressive and backward.

The picture painted in the west by muslims is only the positive parts, with all the ugliness hidden away.

Some other people that convert, simply do it to rebel.
👍 well said algebra.
 
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