Islam and Heaven or paradise, do women go where men go when they die?

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According to Ibn Warraq, author of “Why I Am Not a Muslim”, Islam never really encouraged science, if by science we mean `disinterested enquiry’. What Islam always meant by ’ knowledge’ was religious knowledge, anything else was deemed dangerous to the faith. All the real science that occurred under Islam occurred despite the religion not because of it.

You have given examples of achievements of Muslims from 1,000 years ago. Here is what a Lebanese Muslim wrote about Islamic society today:

This makes your list of Islamic men of achievement all the more depressing when you consider what talent and discoveries have been lost to the world through the oppression of the mind, body and soul that is standard in Islamic nations today.

(None of this has anything to do with Islam and Heaven and the question of where women go. Sorry to the OP for the tangent. I was just responding to the posts directed at me.)
I’ve read Warraq’s book. While some of his arguments are interesting, I don’t think overall they accurately reflect Islam in the medieval period, any more than Richard Dawkins brusque dismissal of St Thomas and his philosophy in the ‘God delusion’ accurately and fairly represents medieval Christian philosophy.

Islamic civilisation is still producing outstanding thinkers. Abdus Salam, an Ahmadi Muslim from Pakistan (same as Paarsurrey) won the Nobel Prize for Physics, in his work on electroweak theory.

The wikipedia entry is as follows:

“Abdus Salam (Urdu: عبد السلام) (January 29, 1926 at Santokdas, Sahiwal in Punjab – November 21, 1996 in Oxford, England) was a Pakistani theoretical physicist who received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1979 for his work in Electro-Weak Theory which is the mathematical and conceptual synthesis of the Electromagnetic and Weak interactions, the latest stage in the effort to provide a unified description of the four fundamental forces of nature. He holds the unique distinction of being the first Muslim Nobel Laureate as well as the first Pakistani Nobel Laureate. Salam, Sheldon Glashow and Steven Weinberg arrived at the theory independently and shared the prize. The validity of the theory was ascertained through experiments carried out at the Super Proton Synchrotron facility at CERN in Geneva, particularly, through the discovery of the W and Z Bosons.”

As for that blogger you quote who claims Islam is in decline, in my view he has not produced convincing evidence that Islam is in decline. Comparing the statistics of scientists in Israel vs Iran is too limited and probably also flawed by personal bias; one would need a wider survey. I agree the West has the upper hand in advanced scientific research at the moment, but soon China and India will probably match and exceed the West in terms of scientific discoveries and breakthroughs.

Personally I think we are not going to get anywhere trying to prove one religion is better than another using science, philosophy, or other achievements. Each world civilisation has its outstanding thinkers, and one claim for superiority in one field can quite easily be negated using a counter-example. The West at the moment is probably at its high point in history, so yes, more leading scientists and thinkers live now in the West than in the Islamic world. But this probably will not remain so forever, as history does not stand still, and the Islamic world will eventually catch up to any ‘lack’ it may have to the West, given its rich heritage.

Would things be the same if the West was still dominated by the Church as it was in the medieval period? I am not sure. The medieval period and the modern period produced many great scientists, but the historical record shows religion hindered and also helped science in many ways. Many scientists were inspired by the Greek notion the cosmos was discoverable by mathematics and human reason, and by the Judeo-Christian notion the cosmos is a good being made by God. Many leading scientists were also Catholics or Christians, from St Albert to Nicholas Oresme to Galileo to Lemaitre and Gregor Mendel in the 20th century. However there were and are great scientists were and are now also atheists, agnostics, theists, or those of non-Christian religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism. Indians and Japanese have also won Nobel Prizes, not just Europeans and Americans. Religion is only one of several factors which can help or hinder science or intellectual progress, and is not the sole or most important factor for many scientists or for scientific breakthroughs.

Human genius is universal, and while people can try to repress it where it flares up, even in theocratic societies like Iran or medieval Europe, it doesn’t stop them from flourishing. Therefore your attempts to show Islam is somehow more backward than Christianity or Western civilisation in my view, is easily and strongly refuted by the evidence.
 
Islamic civilisation is still producing outstanding thinkers. Abdus Salam, an Ahmadi Muslim from Pakistan (same as Paarsurrey) won the Nobel Prize for Physics, in his work on electroweak theory.

The wikipedia entry is as follows:

“Abdus Salam (Urdu: عبد السلام) (January 29, 1926 at Santokdas, Sahiwal in Punjab – November 21, 1996 in Oxford, England) was a Pakistani theoretical physicist who received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1979 for his work in Electro-Weak Theory which is the mathematical and conceptual synthesis of the Electromagnetic and Weak interactions, the latest stage in the effort to provide a unified description of the four fundamental forces of nature. He holds the unique distinction of being the first Muslim Nobel Laureate as well as the first Pakistani Nobel Laureate. Salam, Sheldon Glashow and Steven Weinberg arrived at the theory independently and shared the prize. The validity of the theory was ascertained through experiments carried out at the Super Proton Synchrotron facility at CERN in Geneva, particularly, through the discovery of the W and Z Bosons.”
Hi
I want to mention here that Dr.Abdus Salam (Urdu: عبد السلام) was an Ahmadi Muslim- a peaceful faith in Islam in service of humanity.
Thanks
 
Human genius is universal, and while people can try to repress it where it flares up, even in theocratic societies like Iran or medieval Europe, it doesn’t stop them from flourishing. Therefore your attempts to show Islam is somehow more backward than Christianity or Western civilisation in my view, is easily and strongly refuted by the evidence.
The only export that I see coming out of the Middle East is oil and violence.

This article “Ten empirical deficiencies of Islamic sharia societies” breaks it down neatly.
 
Thank you for those websites, particularly the nature one. I am glad to see things are a bit more balanced now and people are at least backing up their arguments with reasonable research and evidence.

A question we should pose though; if Western countries were all in the hands of Christian theocracies, what would happen to science here? What would happen to biology in particular and the teaching of evolution and Earth science, given the great age of the Earth? Would science flourish here if Christian fundamentalists held power in key political posts?

In my view a key question overlooked is the relationship between religion, politics and power. Reading the articles from the Nature site, the problem seems to be Islamist politicians and political movements, when they attain power, attempt to strangle scientific research which disagrees with their ideaology. It is interesting to note the same happened in Nazi Germany (mainly through the expulsion or execution of Jewish scientists and academics from their posts) and in Soviet Russia.

To me what this proves is the need to keep science free from religious and political interference (in the form of having to conform to a political ideaology). This is especially the case in the U.S. for example, in the creationists who are trying to stop evolution from being taught in schools, at least without the other ‘option’ of evolution.

An interesting question though is where science is done on controversial ethical grounds, i.e. stem cell research. Does religion have a right to interfere in this type of research? If so, why? If there, why not to other areas of research?

This is probably for another thread, as it seems to be going off topic here.
 
I might also add for those who argue for the gentleness of Christianity in comparison to the violence of Islam, what they would make of a post I saw earlier from someone who believes he is both defending the truth and also a devout Catholic Christian:

"One thing I found very fair about the Inquisition is that the accused was allowed to provide a list of “enemies” before the trial. Those on the list were not allowed to testify against them.

When the inquisitor arrived on the scene, the people were given 30 day to admit to heresy, repent, and suffer no consequences, or at most a minor penance. After than the trials would begin.

I believe the inquisitions were a very good thing. I realize that today we shudder at the thought of evil, such as heresy, being punished. We have no problem with heretics corrupting the faith of millions and leading them to hell. We are proud of the fact that we tolerate all errors and blasphemies. That, to us, is a virtue.

Personally, I would *love * to have another inquisition today to have the liberals put on trial, and the bad ones burned at the state. That is justice. Instead, the liberals are allowed to run wild and corrupt the faith of thousands. That is unjust. Having the heretical liberals put on trial, tortured, and, when necessary, *burned at the stake *would end much of the heretical madness that has invaded the Church.

But today we are more “civil”. We allow all evil and heresy to spread under the guise of “tolerance”. Such tolerance, however, leads to the loss of many souls for all eternity. Where is the justice in that?"

Post can be found in this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=165759

(Italics mine).

In my view this fellow’s desires are no better or more desirable than those of an Islamist suicide bomber. Both clearly want to murder and kill in the name of religion. If these sentiments can be found in a Christian, what does that say about all of the claims Islam is violent and backward, when the same attitude can be found right in our own backyard, amoung Christians?
 
NO where does Islamic scripture say this. Women don’t want young boys anyway… children are children. Instead how about some real men. 😃
Look like if we were muslimah, we could only get this young boys, Bel! 😉

Koran 52:24
Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.

Koran 56:17
Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.

Koran 76:19
And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.

Koran 52:24
Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.

www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/heaven.html - 19k
 
Look like if we were muslimah, we could only get this young boys, Bel! 😉

Koran 52:24
Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.

Koran 56:17
Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.

Koran 76:19
And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.

Koran 52:24
Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.

www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/heaven.html - 19k
those verses out of context ,to read them in context see qurancomplex.com

answer to this
[4:124] If any do deeds of righteousness - be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Paradise, and not the least injustice will be done to them.

[33:35] For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for truthful men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah’s praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.
 
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