No, the Mutazilite controversy was not about the validity of logic. It was about certain theological positions that the winning party found to be too rationalistic.
I’m no expert. Are you? My belief is we die and our soul travels to a place that is physical on that plane unavailable to us. I believe Heaven is in the skies and will be made available for us to see after death or after the second coming. Whichever comes first. What part of that goes against scripture?So you believe that heaven and hell are physical places, located in the sky and under the earth, respectively? I am curious, as a Catholic, where you were taught something like this?
No, I am no expert. I have been taught that both heaven and hell are states of being, not physical places. Heaven is the beatific vision; experiencing God “face to face”, the direct self communication of God to an individual person. Hell is complete separation from God; the opposite of heaven. But we are talking about a spiritual, not a physical plane of existence in both cases.
Ah. I guess I understand it to be both is because we were taught that at the second coming we will get our physical bodies back. We are never more alive than after death so to speak. Guess we’ll find out some day
We haven’t any idols, idols are images that are worshiped directly in place of God, which we do not do. I can respond to all of these (I have Muslim friends and family), but I will say Islam denies one very important historical fact, mainly that Yasū‘u l-Masīḥ, was never crucified. I don’t think Muslims quite understand the Doctrine of the Trinity. I actually have copies of the Koran. It says “Allah is neither begotten, nor begets”. I think the problem here is believing that God has to have a beginning and an end, which we Christians explicitly deny. I would also like to ask why Islam claims Isa (Yasū‘) was never crucified, in spite of explicit testimony from the first centuries of Christianity claiming that he indeed was. This is historical fact, and accepted by the vast majority of the world’s historians. If Isa was never crucified, why exactly was he important? There were other miracle workers during Isa, so this can’t be the reason. (Not that all those miracle workers were legitimate, or doing the work of God). No, Isa is known to you for one very plain fact, because in the Tajassud, God became both man and God, and died for you as a man. He died for me too. If you will not accept the doctrine of the Trinity, at least accept the fact that Jesus was crucified. Why would God (remember the title, “Allah most merciful”) put someone else in Jesus’s place during the crucifixion? It seems to me that this is not something a merciful God would do. From the Christian perspective, Yasū (Isa) chose to die, it was in order to fulfill a prophecy. My brother, what Christian scriptures have you read? Do you think we Christians are Modalists? I have noticed this is a very common view amongst Muslims. Salam, brother. Please understand what we mean when we say Bismi l-Ābi wa l-Ibni wa r-Rūḥi l-Qudus, al-Ilāhi l-Wāḥid. I have had the privilege of worshiping with Arabic speaking Christians, Melkites. I do not know whether or not you are Arab, but as I recall, non Arab Muslims also speak Arabic. You know we Christians believe God is love. And we believe Jesus is the perfect embodiment of that love.
Our physical bodies, however, will be glorified so that they can exist in the spiritual realm. However, we are promised a “new heaven and a new earth” and the one thing that all of us must accept is that no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor mind conceived of what God has planned for those who love him. Hopefully, you and I will meet in heaven someday and then we can both have a big laugh at what we thought we understood.Ah. I guess I understand it to be both is because we were taught that at the second coming we will get our physical bodies back. We are never more alive than after death so to speak. Guess we’ll find out some day
Look at the Incoherency of Philosophers by Al-Ghazali (considered by most to be the most influential Muslim after Muhammad). Go to the section title Problem VII and you will see how anti-logic he is. For the Christian if A=B then it logically follows that B=A and even God can’t change that. In Sunni Islamic theology this is not the case. For them if B=A it is only because God decided to make it so.
It is here were logic fails God.
The Catholic Church concurs with FAITH AND REASON not logic and reason.
Can’t wait!Our physical bodies, however, will be glorified so that they can exist in the spiritual realm. However, we are promised a “new heaven and a new earth” and the one thing that all of us must accept is that no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor mind conceived of what God has planned for those who love him. Hopefully, you and I will meet in heaven someday and then we can both have a big laugh at what we thought we understood.
Peace, my friend.
Steve
Denial of causality is not the same thing as the denial of logic. On the contrary, one reason some philosophers (like Hume) have denied causality is precisely that there is no necessary logical connection between cause and effect. I did read a brief selection from the Incoherence years ago in grad school and don’t recall him denying logic. The Christian philosophers who made similar arguments, like Nicholas of Autrecourt, were rigorously logical (in the nominalist tradition, which had the most sophisticated logical apparatus of pretty much any philosophical school until 20th-century analytic philosophy).
Edwin,
It’s called the mystery of the Incarnation. I don’t know if anyone knows the exact mechanics of how it occurred. With great faith we believe in the maternity of the Virgin.Edwin,
God ( so Holy) has no shape. He is spirit. His Holy Spirit is spirit and I am curious to think before the nativity was Jesus a spirit until he was born a baby?? there was no sex involved in the conception of Jesus in Mary. We are dealing w a supernatural and a natural element here. I am waiting for an Apologist reply on my own personal heresy. I can see the Holy Spirit lovingly wrap her in His spirit and implant the sperm or the DNA not contained in a sperm in her ova. But this is the natural part of the impregnation of Mary. Humans join sperm+egg=morula=zygote=embryo=fetus=baby=JESUS. The natural progression had to happen. The supernatural can be surmised to a point. If Mary were awake, she would have told us. It would have been written. In Christs love, tweedlealice.
Amen; A Mystery of God is made known by divine signs and wonders within space and time (creation), the mysteries of God supersedes the logic of man. What is made visible or logical to space and time came from the invisible reality of eternity.
