Islam & Christianity, which religion is more logical?

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Logic is rejected by Islamic theology. At one time there was a Sunni school of Islamic Theology called Mu`tazila that did embrace logic. However, this was considered heretical and the Mutazilites were destroyed back in the 10th century.

Christianity, on the other hand, (especially Catholicism) embraces Logic.
 
Logic is rejected by Islamic theology. At one time there was a Sunni school of Islamic Theology called Mu`tazila that did embrace logic. However, this was considered heretical and the Mutazilites were destroyed back in the 10th century.

Christianity, on the other hand, (especially Catholicism) embraces Logic.
Quite the irony considering the OP 😉

MJ
 
Also. Jesus was told his friend Lazarus was dying. Jesus said that He would come but He took His time. When He got to Mary and Martha’s house, Mary, ran out to greet Him and said," Lord, if you were ,here, he would not have died." Jesus wept. Then, He walked to the tomb w everyone following Him… He became quiet and looked up and stated," Father, you are in me and I am in you." Then, He turned to the tomb and ordered the stone rolled away opening the tomb. they said,“buy Lord,“he stinketh.” they removed the stonel Then, as Jesus is the WORD, He called out,'LAZARUS COME OUT!!!. HE REPEATED THIS AND LAZARUS CAME OUT.” The power of the voice of the Messiah at these moments must tremble the earth. So, though the Holy Spirit is not mentioned at this moment, He was there as He is the power in the triol

But, clearly, Jesus defined that the Father is in Jesus and Jesus is in the Father.He who the Son sets free is free indeed."🙂
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Logic is rejected by Islamic theology. At one time there was a Sunni school of Islamic Theology called Mu`tazila that did embrace logic. However, this was considered heretical and the Mutazilites were destroyed back in the 10th century.
No, the Mutazilite controversy was not about the validity of logic. It was about certain theological positions that the winning party found to be too rationalistic.

What Islamic source can you find saying that Islam rejects logic? So far this seems to be pretty consistently an accusation made by Christians, and thus almost certainly a straw-man caricature.

Edwin
 
So you believe that heaven and hell are physical places, located in the sky and under the earth, respectively? I am curious, as a Catholic, where you were taught something like this? 🙂
I’m no expert. Are you? My belief is we die and our soul travels to a place that is physical on that plane unavailable to us. I believe Heaven is in the skies and will be made available for us to see after death or after the second coming. Whichever comes first. What part of that goes against scripture?
 
I’m no expert. Are you? My belief is we die and our soul travels to a place that is physical on that plane unavailable to us. I believe Heaven is in the skies and will be made available for us to see after death or after the second coming. Whichever comes first. What part of that goes against scripture?
No, I am no expert. I have been taught that both heaven and hell are states of being, not physical places. Heaven is the beatific vision; experiencing God “face to face”, the direct self communication of God to an individual person. Hell is complete separation from God; the opposite of heaven. But we are talking about a spiritual, not a physical plane of existence in both cases.

Peace.

Steve
 
No, I am no expert. I have been taught that both heaven and hell are states of being, not physical places. Heaven is the beatific vision; experiencing God “face to face”, the direct self communication of God to an individual person. Hell is complete separation from God; the opposite of heaven. But we are talking about a spiritual, not a physical plane of existence in both cases.

Peace.

Steve
Ah. I guess I understand it to be both is because we were taught that at the second coming we will get our physical bodies back. We are never more alive than after death so to speak. Guess we’ll find out some day:)
 
Which religion is more logical?

God
Islam: God is One.
Christianity: god is one in three?

Jesus
I: The Prophet of God and his Word. He said to him be and he was.
C: god? son of god?

Mary
I: The mother of Jesus. A virgin who gave birth to Jesus by the miracle of God without being touched by any man.
The best woman of all nations.
C: Mother of god?

Creation
I: God is the creator and He created Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the universe, and He is the only one to be worshiped.
C: Is Jesus a creator or a creation?

Quran
I: The word of God revealed to his final messenger Mohammed through Angel Gabriel.
The unchanged book.
A book with no author except God.
C: A false book?
The author is Muhammed?

Bible
I: A revelation sent to Prophet Jesus as the Torah was revealed to Prophet Moses.
Muslims believe in all the revelations of God but follow the Quran only as God preserves it from change and corruption.
C: Was the Bible not changed?

Perfection
I: God is perfect who does not need to eat or sleep or any human needs.
God does not die.
C: god eats and sleeps and dies too?

Forgiveness
I: No one can forgive sins but God.
We seek forgiveness from God directly.
No mediation between a man and God.
C: god forgives sins after confessing to a priest?
Isn’t priest a man who can sin too?

Images and idols
I: It is forbidden to make images and idols of God and his Prophets.
C: Images and idols of god are allowed?
We haven’t any idols, idols are images that are worshiped directly in place of God, which we do not do. I can respond to all of these (I have Muslim friends and family), but I will say Islam denies one very important historical fact, mainly that Yasū‘u l-Masīḥ, was never crucified. I don’t think Muslims quite understand the Doctrine of the Trinity. I actually have copies of the Koran. It says “Allah is neither begotten, nor begets”. I think the problem here is believing that God has to have a beginning and an end, which we Christians explicitly deny. I would also like to ask why Islam claims Isa (Yasū‘) was never crucified, in spite of explicit testimony from the first centuries of Christianity claiming that he indeed was. This is historical fact, and accepted by the vast majority of the world’s historians. If Isa was never crucified, why exactly was he important? There were other miracle workers during Isa, so this can’t be the reason. (Not that all those miracle workers were legitimate, or doing the work of God). No, Isa is known to you for one very plain fact, because in the Tajassud, God became both man and God, and died for you as a man. He died for me too. If you will not accept the doctrine of the Trinity, at least accept the fact that Jesus was crucified. Why would God (remember the title, “Allah most merciful”) put someone else in Jesus’s place during the crucifixion? It seems to me that this is not something a merciful God would do. From the Christian perspective, Yasū (Isa) chose to die, it was in order to fulfill a prophecy. My brother, what Christian scriptures have you read? Do you think we Christians are Modalists? I have noticed this is a very common view amongst Muslims. Salam, brother. Please understand what we mean when we say Bismi l-Ābi wa l-Ibni wa r-Rūḥi l-Qudus, al-Ilāhi l-Wāḥid. I have had the privilege of worshiping with Arabic speaking Christians, Melkites. I do not know whether or not you are Arab, but as I recall, non Arab Muslims also speak Arabic. You know we Christians believe God is love. And we believe Jesus is the perfect embodiment of that love.
 
Ah. I guess I understand it to be both is because we were taught that at the second coming we will get our physical bodies back. We are never more alive than after death so to speak. Guess we’ll find out some day:)
Our physical bodies, however, will be glorified so that they can exist in the spiritual realm. However, we are promised a “new heaven and a new earth” and the one thing that all of us must accept is that no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor mind conceived of what God has planned for those who love him. Hopefully, you and I will meet in heaven someday and then we can both have a big laugh at what we thought we understood. 🙂

Peace, my friend.

Steve
 
No, the Mutazilite controversy was not about the validity of logic. It was about certain theological positions that the winning party found to be too rationalistic.

What Islamic source can you find saying that Islam rejects logic? So far this seems to be pretty consistently an accusation made by Christians, and thus almost certainly a straw-man caricature.

Edwin
Look at the Incoherency of Philosophers by Al-Ghazali (considered by most to be the most influential Muslim after Muhammad). Go to the section title Problem VII and you will see how anti-logic he is. For the Christian if A=B then it logically follows that B=A and even God can’t change that. In Sunni Islamic theology this is not the case. For them if B=A it is only because God decided to make it so.

A specific example Al-Ghazali gives involves the burning of cotton. If a flame touches cotton it will turn black. Christians logically conclude the flame caused the cotton to turn black and cotton will always turn black when it comes into contact with fire by its nature. Al-Ghazali wrote “This is what we deny.” He taught that the flame has no power to turn the cotton black and that the cotton turns black only because God, either directly or through angels, made the cotton turn black.

I think it is clear Christianity is the more logical religion.
 
Matthew Light;12740118]Hmmm.
Does that mean 4 = 3, or that God can make a stone so heavy He can’t lift it?
It is here were logic fails God.
The laws of gravity obey God, God is not subject to the governing (logical) laws of the universe. Logic is subject to the laws which God placed in the governing of the universe in perfect order according to God’s will, when God is not subject to the logical laws of creation.
To place God under logical understanding is to limit God, and subject God to the laws of the universe which God created in the balance of things.

A numerical equation, no matter how it’s presented has to subject itself or is judged by God’s created laws. When the laws which God put in place that governs the balance of the universe will either prove the equation in error or agrees as correctly obeying the universal laws that are logical, when logic is subject to what God created in space and time.

If? logic is limited to space and time, then **the only god logic has is limited to space and time. ** Therefore, if? a religion basis it’s faith in God from logic only, then God has not revealed divine revelation to that religion and limits it’s god to creation laws created by the One True God revealed in Trinity.
I don’t think logic and reason limit God. I think they help reveal God. As far as I know, the Catholic Church concurs with me about this.
The Catholic Church concurs with FAITH AND REASON not logic and reason.
 
Our physical bodies, however, will be glorified so that they can exist in the spiritual realm. However, we are promised a “new heaven and a new earth” and the one thing that all of us must accept is that no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor mind conceived of what God has planned for those who love him. Hopefully, you and I will meet in heaven someday and then we can both have a big laugh at what we thought we understood. 🙂

Peace, my friend.

Steve
Can’t wait!
 
Look at the Incoherency of Philosophers by Al-Ghazali (considered by most to be the most influential Muslim after Muhammad). Go to the section title Problem VII and you will see how anti-logic he is. For the Christian if A=B then it logically follows that B=A and even God can’t change that. In Sunni Islamic theology this is not the case. For them if B=A it is only because God decided to make it so.

A specific example Al-Ghazali gives involves the burning of cotton. If a flame touches cotton it will turn black. Christians logically conclude the flame caused the cotton to turn black and cotton will always turn black when it comes into contact with fire by its nature. Al-Ghazali wrote “This is what we deny.” He taught that the flame has no power to turn the cotton black and that the cotton turns black only because God, either directly or through angels, made the cotton turn black.

I think it is clear Christianity is the more logical religion.
Denial of causality is not the same thing as the denial of logic. On the contrary, one reason some philosophers (like Hume) have denied causality is precisely that there is no necessary logical connection between cause and effect. I did read a brief selection from the Incoherence years ago in grad school and don’t recall him denying logic. The Christian philosophers who made similar arguments, like Nicholas of Autrecourt, were rigorously logical (in the nominalist tradition, which had the most sophisticated logical apparatus of pretty much any philosophical school until 20th-century analytic philosophy).

Edwin
 
You are not, I hope, suggesting that God has sperm? If you’re simply saying that God somehow created sperm ex nihilo, then I suppose that’s possible, though I think it’s weird and unlikely.

But if you are saying that God impregnated the BVM with his divine sperm, which is what servant thinks you are saying, then you are, I’m afraid, espousing heresy.

Edwin
Edwin,
God ( so Holy) has no shape. He is spirit. His Holy Spirit is spirit and I am curious to think before the nativity was Jesus a spirit until he was born a baby?? there was no sex involved in the conception of Jesus in Mary. We are dealing w a supernatural and a natural element here. I am waiting for an Apologist reply on my own personal heresy. I can see the Holy Spirit lovingly wrap her in His spirit and implant the sperm or the DNA not contained in a sperm in her ova. But this is the natural part of the impregnation of Mary. Humans join sperm+egg=morula=zygote=embryo=fetus=baby=JESUS. The natural progression had to happen. The supernatural can be surmised to a point. If Mary were awake, she would have told us. It would have been written. In Christs love, tweedlealice.🤷
 
Edwin,
God ( so Holy) has no shape. He is spirit. His Holy Spirit is spirit and I am curious to think before the nativity was Jesus a spirit until he was born a baby?? there was no sex involved in the conception of Jesus in Mary. We are dealing w a supernatural and a natural element here. I am waiting for an Apologist reply on my own personal heresy. I can see the Holy Spirit lovingly wrap her in His spirit and implant the sperm or the DNA not contained in a sperm in her ova. But this is the natural part of the impregnation of Mary. Humans join sperm+egg=morula=zygote=embryo=fetus=baby=JESUS. The natural progression had to happen. The supernatural can be surmised to a point. If Mary were awake, she would have told us. It would have been written. In Christs love, tweedlealice.🤷
It’s called the mystery of the Incarnation. I don’t know if anyone knows the exact mechanics of how it occurred. With great faith we believe in the maternity of the Virgin.
 
It’s called the mystery of the Incarnation. I don’t know if anyone knows the exact mechanics of how it occurred. With great faith we believe in the maternity of the Virgin.
Amen; A Mystery of God is made known by divine signs and wonders within space and time (creation), the mysteries of God supersedes the logic of man. What is made visible or logical to space and time came from the invisible reality of eternity.

If God can take dirt and water to create flesh, how difficult is it to believe in faith and reason that the almighty God can send His Word to take on our flesh Himself.

The Son is eternally begotten of the Father NOT made.

And the Word became flesh.

If the Word of God created all things as God overshadowed the waters, how difficult is faith to believe when God overshadowed the blessed Virgin who is immaculate conception, God’s Word Himself took on flesh for our behalf to give us new life eternal for that which was lost by the first Adam.
 
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