Isn't this life profound (and a bit miserable)?

[Robert_Sock]

I’m devout to the utmost, but I have to say that life is most profound. No matter how you look at life, here we are, ‘stuck’ in these loathsome bodies? I’m in awe!!! I believe, as Saint Francis as Assisi makes perfectly clear, we were not made for this lowly world, but for Heaven. Ponder that! Ponder also the Passion of Christ, especially, again, by Saint Francis of Assisi. youtube.com/watch?v=yLlKkWw_wjI I would like to think that Christ suffered for our sins and died, and that was that…we’re saved. But look around this lowly world and make notice of all the pain and suffering. The Passion of Christ, along with all the suffering in this world, causes me to tremble!!! Where are we as human beings? Look at the pitiful human condition!

Yes, there is plenty of pain and suffering, but there is also Love, and we have a Saviour. Once again I’ll quote Saint Francis of Assisi and say that if it were not for the Passion of Christ we would all be bound for hell. Rejoice then, not for being alive here in this miserable and corrupt life, but for eternal life!

THE DAY OF ETERNITY AND THE DISTRESSES OF THIS LIFE

O MOST happy mansion of the city above! O most bright day of eternity, which night does not darken, but which the highest truth ever enlightens! O day, ever joyful and ever secure, which never changes its state to the opposite! Oh, that this day shine forth, that all these temporal things come to an end! It envelops the saints all resplendent with heavenly brightness, but it appears far off as through a glass to us wanderers on the earth. The citizens of heaven know how joyful that day is, but the exiled sons of Eve mourn that this one is bitter and tedious.

The days of this life are short and evil, full of grief and distress. Here man is defiled by many sins, ensnared in many passions, enslaved by many fears, and burdened with many cares. He is distracted by many curiosities and entangled in many vanities, surrounded by many errors and worn by many labors, oppressed by temptations, weakened by pleasures, and tortured by want.

Oh, when will these evils end? When shall I be freed from the miserable slavery of vice? When, Lord, shall I think of You alone? When shall I fully rejoice in You? When shall I be without hindrance, in true liberty, free from every grievance of mind and body? When will there be solid peace, undisturbed and secure, inward peace and outward peace, peace secured on every side? O good Jesus, when shall I stand to gaze upon You? When shall I contemplate the glory of Your kingdom? When will You be all in all to me? Oh, when shall I be with You in that kingdom of Yours, which You have prepared for Your beloved from all eternity?
–The Imitation of Christ, Chapter 48

 

[Robert_Sock]

Wisdom is the booby prize of life, but as King Solomon makes perfectly clear in Ecclesiastes, it has a great advantage over our usual day-to-day vanities.

LOVE!

 

[GEddie]

Loathsome body? Speak for yourself RS!

I am very happy to be embodied!

And I wouldn’t call wisdom a booby prize; Scripture itself values wisdom
Much higher than that!

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Loathsome body? Speak for yourself RS!

I am very happy to be embodied!

And I wouldn’t call wisdom a booby prize; Scripture itself values wisdom
Much higher than that!

ICXC NIKA.

So sorry if I offended you with what I consider to be the truth.

What does Ecclesiastes say about wisdom?

Here’s a Jewish and Catholic saint talking about their earthly bodies:

This, then, should be one’s lifelong aim in the service of G‑d with great joy — the joy of the soul upon leaving the** loathsome body**, and returning, during one’s study of the Torah and service of G‑d through prayer, to “her father’s house as in her youth,” i.e., to the unity with G‑d that it enjoyed before it descended into the body.
–Likutei Amarim, middle of Chapter 31

"The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, ‘Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!’ (Ps. 119:5)… He ceases not to ask with the Apostle’… Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (Rom. 7:24)”
-The Golden Key to Heaven, by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

That’s Saint Paul saying that about his body, so no, I will not speak just for myself, but preach the truths of the Holy Bible. If you can find anywhere in the scriptures that states our earthly bodies are already in a glorified state, I would greatly appreciate if you can quote it.

LOVE!

 

[Weejee]

Lucky people see life as wonderful and good…

Unlucky people see life as a suffering and bad…

I imagine life is random. You get hit with ****. You get hit with gold. And it’s not fair. Some people get socked with more pain than others. It’s random.

And the only thing we can do in this random world is hug as close to God as Possible. Thank him in your luck, and believe and love Him when you are in pain.

“Hear O Israel, the Lord your God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your mind, all your heart and all your soul.” Deut 6:4

Yes! You are right. That is what we can do in this random world.

God bless you!

 

[StrawberryJam]

I don’t see life as mainly miserable, corrupt, and pitiful. I see mostly the beauty and love, and that’s how I experience it.

This “lowly world” of pain and suffering and the pitiful human condition you describe…isn’t it all created by the God you worship–who is all-loving and all-knowing?

I suppose you could always file a complaint with the manufacturer…or get your money back…or even choose to leave this miserable world?

.

I find your response to be very offensive as you mock those in a playful way who are or have considered suicide.

 

[tabycat]

So sorry if I offended you with what I consider to be the truth.

What does Ecclesiastes say about wisdom?

Here’s a Jewish and Catholic saint talking about their earthly bodies:

This, then, should be one’s lifelong aim in the service of G‑d with great joy — the joy of the soul upon leaving the** loathsome body**, and returning, during one’s study of the Torah and service of G‑d through prayer, to “her father’s house as in her youth,” i.e., to the unity with G‑d that it enjoyed before it descended into the body.
–Likutei Amarim, middle of Chapter 31

"The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, ‘Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!’ (Ps. 119:5)… He ceases not to ask with the Apostle’… Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (Rom. 7:24)”
-The Golden Key to Heaven, by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

That’s Saint Paul saying that about his body, so no, I will not speak just for myself, but preach the truths of the Holy Bible. If you can find anywhere in the scriptures that states our earthly bodies are already in a glorified state, I would greatly appreciate if you can quote it.

LOVE!

Do you love God and your neighbor? The Lord Jesus Christ (Second Person of God) said to love God with your whole heart, mind, and soul and to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Do you love God and your neighbor? The Lord Jesus Christ (Second Person of God) said to love God with your whole heart, mind, and soul and to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, but can you please explain how you connect our love for God and our neighbors with the vanity found in wisdom, and our body being loathsome?

Is it not the case that we are much more than these worldly bodies, and that one day we will have our souls within glorified bodies to prove it?

Does not our world contain great evil, which, like with many of the great saints, should be shunned?

LOVE!

 

[tabycat]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, but can you please explain how you connect our love for God and our neighbors with the vanity found in wisdom, and our body being loathsome?

Is it not the case that we are much more than these worldly bodies, and that one day we will have our souls within glorified bodies to prove it?

Does not our world contain great evil, which, like with many of the great saints, should be shunned?

LOVE!

If you cannot love all of yourself (including your body) how are you going to love the Lord Jesus with His worldly Body and your neighbors with their bodies? If you love your neighbors you help them out, when you help them are you helping them (on this side of heaven) in their ‘loathsome’ bodies or in their ‘glorified’ bodies?

 

[Robert_Sock]

If you cannot love all of yourself (including your body) how are you going to love the Lord Jesus with His worldly Body and your neighbors with their bodies? If you love your neighbors you help them out, when you help them are you helping them (on this side of heaven) in their ‘loathsome’ bodies or in their ‘glorified’ bodies?

How do you reconcile your view with that of Saint Paul?

24Miserable one that I am! Who will deliver me from this mortal body? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with my mind, serve the law of God but, with my flesh, the law of sin.
-Romans 7:

LOVE!

 

[tabycat]

How do you reconcile your view with that of Saint Paul?

24Miserable one that I am! Who will deliver me from this mortal body? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with my mind, serve the law of God but, with my flesh, the law of sin.
-Romans 7:

LOVE!

God created you (and everybody and everything alse). You are forgeting that Paul saw the Risen Christ and wanted to be in Heaven with Him, even tho Paul know that he was a sinner, like the rest of us.

 

[Robert_Sock]

God created you (and everybody and everything alse).

Were not Adam and Eve “loathsome” to the degree that they chose evil?

You are forgeting that Paul saw the Risen Christ and wanted to be in Heaven with Him, even tho Paul know that he was a sinner, like the rest of us.

And we today do not long for Heaven?

Living on earth is truly a misery. The more a man desires spiritual life, the more bitter the present becomes to him, because he understands better and sees more clearly the defects, the corruption of human nature. To eat and drink, to watch and sleep, to rest, to labor, and to be bound by other human necessities is certainly a great misery and affliction to the devout man, who would gladly be released from them and be free from all sin. Truly, the inner man is greatly burdened in this world by the necessities of the body, and for this reason the Prophet prayed that he might be as free from them as possible, when he said: “From my necessities, O Lord, deliver me.” Ps. 24:17
*-The Imitation of Christ *

 

[StrawberryJam]

God created you (and everybody and everything alse). You are forgeting that Paul saw the Risen Christ and wanted to be in Heaven with Him, even tho Paul know that he was a sinner, like the rest of us.

Wasn’t Paul alive and well and close in distance to Jesus while Jesus was alive and yet never met him personally?

 

[tabycat]

Wasn’t Paul alive and well and close in distance to Jesus while Jesus was alive and yet never met him personally?

Paul met the Risen Lord on the road to Damascas (sp?). At that time Paul was still alive and well.

 

[Robert_Sock]

God created you (and everybody and everything alse).

To the degree that Adam and Eve chose evil, were they not loathsome?

You are forgeting that Paul saw the Risen Christ and wanted to be in Heaven with Him, even tho Paul know that he was a sinner, like the rest of us.

Do you believe that we will eventually have glorified bodies? Compared to these glorified bodies, must we not view these bodies as lowly and loathsome?

Living on earth is truly a misery. The more a man desires spiritual life, the more bitter the present becomes to him, because he understands better and sees more clearly the defects, the corruption of human nature. To eat and drink, to watch and sleep, to rest, to labor, and to be bound by other human necessities is certainly a great misery and affliction to the devout man, who would gladly be released from them and be free from all sin. Truly, the inner man is greatly burdened in this world by the necessities of the body, and for this reason the Prophet prayed that he might be as free from them as possible, when he said: “From my necessities, O Lord, deliver me.”
-The Imitation of Christ

What is Thomas a Kempis inferring here?

LOVE!

 

[Aloysium]

To the degree that Adam and Eve chose evil, were they not loathsome? . . .

loathesome: causing hatred or disgust; repulsive.
Sin is loathsome; this body with its wonders is not.
One should not blame the body for acts of will.

 

[Robert_Sock]

loathesome: causing hatred or disgust; repulsive.
Sin is loathsome; this body with its wonders is not.
One should not blame the body for acts of will.

Did you ever hear the phrase by Saint Paul that “the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak?” Is not that in itself reason to call these bodies loathsome? These bodies do predispose us to sin, therefore they must me loathsome.

LOVE!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Did you ever hear the phrase by Saint Paul that “the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak?” Is not that in itself reason to call these bodies loathsome? These bodies do predispose us to sin, therefore they must me loathsome.

LOVE!

From the Book of Wisdom:
Chap 1.12 - Chap 2.1

Do not invite death by the error of your life,
nor bring on destruction by the works of your hands;
because God did not make death,
and he does not delight in the death of the living.
For he created all things that they might exist,
and the generative forces of the world are wholesome,
and there is no destructive poison in them;
and the dominion of Hades is not on earth.

For righteousness is immortal.

But ungodly men by their words and deeds summoned death;
considering him a friend, they pined away,
and they made a covenant with him,
because they are fit to belong to his party.

For they reasoned unsoundly, saying to themselves,
“Short and sorrowful is our life,
and there is no remedy when a man comes to his end,
and no one has been known to return from Hades.”

 

[Aloysium]

The flesh is weak, a slave to sin and basically death in waiting. But, loathesome? I don’t think so.
It is the body of Jesus our saviour and redeemer which hangs on that cross taking upon itself all our sins and suffering.
Our bodies enable us to connect as participants in this physical universe. This capability is mind boggling.
Separating oneself from and loathing oneself (We are our bodies.) is symptomatic of the brokenness that comes from sin.
To me, it smacks of spiritual pride - the person attempting to be superior to himself.
God have mercy; Christ have mercy. This is sufficient. Whatever remains maybe neurosis or some sort of mood disorder.
Speaking about that I came across an interesting psychiatric syndrome, which may or may not exist - Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome: It seems some people have a very intense physiological response to orgasm. Whereas most men lose their intense feelings of sexual desire and some, to their wives chagrin, fall asleep once they ejaculate, there are apparently rare individuals who get really intense physical symptoms, not psychologically based, wherein they sweat heavily, get headaches, lose all their energy and get very depressed for days even a week after. It seems that even spontaneous nocturnal emissions are enough to trigger the same response.
I’m not sure why I am mentioning this, It just came to mind. We are talking about the body and how it behaves.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The flesh is weak, a slave to sin and basically death in waiting. But, loathesome? I don’t think so.
It is the body of Jesus our saviour and redeemer which hangs on that cross taking upon itself all our sins and suffering.
Our bodies enable us to connect as participants in this physical universe. This capability is mind boggling.
Separating oneself from and loathing oneself (We are our bodies.) is symptomatic of the brokenness that comes from sin.
To me, it smacks of spiritual pride - the person attempting to be superior to himself.
God have mercy; Christ have mercy. This is sufficient. Whatever remains maybe neurosis or some sort of mood disorder.
Speaking about that I came across an interesting psychiatric syndrome, which may or may not exist - Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome: It seems some people have a very intense physiological response to orgasm. Whereas most men lose their intense feelings of sexual desire and some, to their wives chagrin, fall asleep once they ejaculate, there are apparently rare individuals who get really intense physical symptoms, not psychologically based, wherein they sweat heavily, get headaches, lose all their energy and get very depressed for days even a week after. It seems that even spontaneous nocturnal emissions are enough to trigger the same response.
I’m not sure why I am mentioning this, It just came to mind. We are talking about the body and how it behaves.

A saint and a pope, Innocent III, from De Contemptu Mundi (XIX):

ON THE PRISON OF (OR TO) THE SOUL

“Unhappy man, who will liberate me from this body of death (lit.- the body of this death)?” Certainly, he does not wish to exit prison, who does not wish to exit the body, for the body is the prison of the soul. Of which says the Psalmist: “Lead my soul from prison, to confiding in your name.” Never is there quite and tranquility, never is there peace and security, everywhere is fear and tremor, everywhere labor and pain. “While it (the soul) lives it shall mourn, and the soul over itself self shall weep.”

LOVE!