Its Greek to me

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I was speaking to a couple of Jehovah’s Witnesses last Sunday. We were discussing the Divinity of Christ, (actually, I was).

We were using references in Exodus and John, where God tells Moses “I am who am,” and Jesus says “…before Abraham was, I am.” In his bible, it translates into “I will prove what I have proven” or something like that.

He said he did some research and found the Greek word “eh yeh” or “ha yah” as a basis for his translation. Although, he says he doesn’t know Greek, the research he was reading from, (Rotheham and Hertz) supports the meaning of “eh yeh” as “I prove.”

I don’t know Greek, so does anyone know the meaning of “eh yeh” or “ha yah?”

On a side note, my research of the same passages resulted in the Greek word “ego eimi” as “I am.” Which word was used in the original Greek?
 
My husband just finished two courses in Greek, got A’s in both classes. :clapping: I’ll show him your post when he gets home this afternoon and see what he says.

Scout :tiphat:
 
I’m not 100% sure I understand what you mean by “eh yeh” or “ha yah” in this context. The Greek in John 8:58 is “ego eimi” which literally means “I (ego) exist (eimi)”. Perhaps if you could give a better reference to the Greek you are interested in I could provide a better answer.

Deacon Ed
 
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K-McD:
He said he did some research and found the Greek word “eh yeh” or “ha yah” as a basis for his translation. Although, he says he doesn’t know Greek, the research he was reading from, (Rotheham and Hertz) supports the meaning of “eh yeh” as “I prove.”

I don’t know Greek, so does anyone know the meaning of “eh yeh” or “ha yah?”
Click to expand...
ha yah = yah veh? It sounds like this Jehovah Witness is getting his Greek mixed up with his Hebrew.

from the Web page of **CONGREGATION SHEMA YISRAEL ** (Messianic)

The TETRAGRAMMATON – YHVH

“YHVH” is a name that is generally translated “Lord.” It is used approximately 7000 times in the Tenach (Hebrew Scriptures), more than any other name for God. It is also referred to as the “Tetragrammaton,” which means “The Four Letters,” because it comes from four Hebrew letters: Yud, Hay, Vav, Hay. This name comes from the Hebrew verb which means “to be.” YHVH emphasizes God’s absolute being. He has life and being inherent in Himself. Everything else derives its being from Him. The Lord is the source of all being, all existence and all reality. He is without beginning and without end because He always was, He is, and He always will be.

Even though YHVH appears in Genesis 2, God didn’t reveal Himself as YHVH until Exodus 3 in conjunction with the creation of Israel. This is the special memorial-name that God revealed to Moses at the burning bush. “And God said to Moses, "I Am Who I Am; and He said, thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I Am has sent me to you… this is My eternal name, and this is how I am to be recalled for all generations” (Exodus 3:14-15).

Although some pronounce YHVH as Jehovah or Yaweh, those are only guesses, since we no longer know for sure the proper pronunciation. The Jewish people stopped saying this name by the third century AD out of fear of violating the commandment, “You shall not take the name of YHVH your God in vain” (Exodus 20:7), and we lost the knowledge of its proper pronunciation. According to the rabbis, the Tetragrammaton may not be pronounced under any circumstances. Another name, “Adonai,” is usually substituted in place of YHVH. When YHVH is combined with other words God’s different attributes are emphasized.
 
YAH

“Yah” is a shortened form of YHVH, and so it too comes from the Hebrew verb that means “to be.” It is generally translated as Lord. It is used approximately 40 times in the Holy Scriptures, and appears primarily in the book of Psalms. It is also found in the compound word “hallelu-Yah,” which is a plural command to “praise Yah.”

YESHUA [Jesus] IS YHVH
[Jesus is Jehovah]

The same Lord who revealed Himself as YHVH in the Tenach is revealed as Yeshua in the New Testament. Yeshua shares the same attributes as YHVH. He has life in Himself: “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himsel” (John 5:26). He gives existence to and sustains all other things: “All things came into being by Him” (John 1:3). “He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together” (Colossians 1:17). “He upholds all things by the word of His power” (Hebrews 1:3). In addition, the Son of God claimed to be Adonai. When asked by some Jewish leaders how He could have seen Abraham, who lived 2,000 years before, Yeshua replied: "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am” (John 8:58), I Am being an essential part of the Tetragrammaton.

Rabbi Paul tells Messiah’s Holy Community at Rome: “if you confess with your mouth Yeshua as Lord… you shall be saved.” A few verses later, in 10:13, Paul backs up this statement by quoting Joel 2:32: “Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord (YHVH) will be saved.” Calling on Yeshua as Lord is equivalent to calling Him YHVH, because Yeshua is YHVH. In fact, the powerful title, Adonai Tzidkaynu - the Lord our Righteousness, is prophetically applied to the Messiah (Jeremiah 23:6). In some miraculous way, a human being who comes from the royal line of King David will ascend to David’s throne, save us and rule over us with wisdom and righteousness. And, He is also Adonai Himself, the Source of Being, who enables those who trust in Him to have a right relationship with God.

CONGREGATION SHEMA YISRAEL (Messianic),
 
Thanks Matt16_18. You hit the nail on the head.

Deacon Ed,

I think the reference is the Greek word “to be.” He was saying, according to Rotheham and Hertz the Greek word “eh yeh” or “ha yah” means more than “to be.” It means “to prove” or “to cause.” That was his focal point.

I told him I would look up the references for my own interest and would not discuss the Greek language in future discussions. I would need more time to study than I have available.

Thanks
 
K-McD:

The word *eimi *in this passage is the Greek for “to be.” There is a specific case when the words it connects (predicate and subject) are in the same case and then it would mean something along the line of *signify *or import. An example of that is *ta dis pente deka estin *(twice five is ten). It can also be in the form of *einai tis *meaning “to be somebody.” I can’t find a single usage in which it means “prove”.

Be very careful with the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the bible. They tend to use the New World Bible which is notorious for its poor translation – Fred Franz was the leading translator and he had only two years of college Greek and was self-taught in Hebrew. The other four “translators” (Nathan Knorr, Albert Schroeder, George Gangas, and M. Henschel) had only high school education.

BTW, the NWT reading for the Greek *ego eimi *is “I have been” (“58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”).

I also have no idea who the “researchers” he mentioned are.

Deacon Ed
 
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