It's Official: Pope Repeals Excommunications of SSPX Bishops!

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That is the ONLY thing they have NOT done. They cut themselves off from the church in word and deed, and rather than present themselves for canonical trial to prove their innocence, went to the court of public opinion and rejected papal authority and mercy.

They are no more catholic than the Utrecht Union or the PNCC.

Hopefully, they will swallow their pride and cure that defect.
It does. It says that the Pope is giving in in hopes of reunion to at least one of Fellay’s demands.

Until he is in FULL union with rome, he’s not Catholic any more than the bishops of the Union of Utrecht, or the Patriarch of Moscow.
The SSPX are not catholics, and are a terrible lot, and the Pope is giving in to their arrogant demands. Does that about sum up what you are saying ?

Imagine that. The Pope is in cahoots with the rengades. Oh my, and the Cardinals who elected him must be in on it too !

How do you howl “scandal !” in wolf ? 😛
 
We all know that there were gas chambers and a halocaust. And your accusations notwithstanding, Bishop Williamson knows this too. It’s all about what the role was of those “gas chambers” and the number who were actually gassed to death that is in dispute not only by Bishop Williamson but a whole bunch of other historians. Bishop Fellay’s letter, at least to me, tries to distinguish between Bishop Williamson’s role as a historian vs that of his role as a legitimate bishop. How long are you going to continue to deny this?
I dont think that Bishop Williamson has ever claimed to be a historian.

And now he is in trouble, saying as he did at german territory, and is now an object for investigation and might be sentenced to prison.
 
Amen! The tide in the Church has indeed changed. The restoration is underway. Thank God for Benedict XVI.
Yes, Thank God for Benedict XVI! This is a great move on his part. I haven’t been browsing this forum much over the past fiew days, so I was pleasantly surprised when I heard about it at the Tridentine Mass Yesterday. I honestly hope that this will lead to every parish in the world offering at least one TLM per Sunday, and much more reverence at the NO, which is greatly needed in most parishes.
 
And now he is in trouble, saying as he did at german territory, and is now an object for investigation and might be sentenced to prison.
Yes, I did hear that in some countries there is no freedom of speech. But that should have nothing to do with his Catholic status.
 
Yes, I did hear that in some countries there is no freedom of speech. But that should have nothing to do with his Catholic status.
Of course not.
Even the maffia bosses from sicilly has a catholic status!
 
For you and all others who doesnt believe that he said there was no gas chambers i urge you to look at this clip published at this site.

blog.balder.org/?p=600

Its an actual clip from the program sent on swedish television
Thank you for passing this on.

For me, the most disgusting part of this interview was towards the end, when Williamson says, “I’m not interested in anti-semitism.”

Ahhh, how convenient – he’s not interested in anti-semitism. I hope that this speaks volumes to those of you who obstinately refuse to accept that a man’s “historical opinion,” when it concerns one of the greatest atrocities the world has ever known, is not incidental or trivial, and who insist that one is morally entitled to say whatever one wants about the Holocaust. The fact that he is so insensitive to people’s pain as to deny the anti-semitic agenda of most (if not all) Holocaust deniers – the fact that he is so self-centered as to assume it’s all about insulting him – is just mind-boggling. Any real Christian leader would have answered this question much differently, I am sure…a chastisement even of the 200,000 deaths he does believe in, or a word of support with the world’s Jews…?

I am saying nothing about the decision to rehabilitate the SSPX. I trust the Pope, especially since I know that his decision is not reducible to one man’s statements, however horrific. But I think that the SSPX’s supporters also need to accept the complicated nature of the case, and appreciate the gravity of Williamson’s remarks. It is all of our responsibility to repudiate this man’s slimy anti-semitism and lack of Christian charity. I hope that even those of you who love the SSPX will join me in this.

Peace,
+AMDG+

PS - As for this so-called “Leuchter Report” – Leuchter once gave a shoddy report in a trial for a Holocaust denier. He was dismissed as a credible witness and his report was ruled inadmissible. If Williamson has done one iota of research on this guy, he must know that – enough to revise his opinion of “expert historians’ conclusions.” Anyway, here is a website that thoroughly addresses all of Leuchter’s false claims:

nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/
 
This really isn’t the place for this discussion. The repealing of the excommunications is the first step towards a reconciliation; doctrinal discussions will follow.

If you want to argue about the society’s positions, start a new thread.
Way to dodge the question!! 😉

With all due respect, this was an excellent objection that cuts straight to the heart of many people’s feelings about the SSPX. The topic of the thread is people’s feelings about the SSPX’s rehabilitation – I certainly think this is a place to air grievances (so that those of us who have worries about the group can rationally defend ourselves). No? After all, we have talked a great deal about the SSPX’s doctrinal stances already…

Maybe it would be ok to start a new thread, but if we do so, I hope someone responds to this post, because I think it’s insightful. Quoting Eucharistic Prayer III – well done.

Peace,
+AMDG+
 
We all know that there were gas chambers and a halocaust. And your accusations notwithstanding, Bishop Williamson knows this too. It’s all about what the role was of those “gas chambers” and the number who were actually gassed to death that is in dispute not only by Bishop Williamson but a whole bunch of other historians. Bishop Fellay’s letter, at least to me, tries to distinguish between Bishop Williamson’s role as a historian vs that of his role as a legitimate bishop. How long are you going to continue to deny this?
I will continue to deny it with every last breath until someone responds to my worries, which I articulated in another post…and which I duplicate below. Williamson’s Holocaust denial is not some petty quibbling over a minor historical moment; it carries grave implications. As I wrote the last time:

The thing is, we are not talking about some vague, murky historical side-note or unsolved mystery, here. The gruesome extent of the Holocaust is one of the most studied and best documented historical calamities of all time. If this individual has such a skeptical position on it, one absolutely has to question why. Does he have virulently anti-Semitic motives? I wouldn’t doubt it for a second, as that seems to be the common bond of most Holocaust deniers. Or perhaps he is simply crazy, or an idiot…? I think you’d almost have to be to say some of the things he’s said.

But anyway, I can think of absolutely no good excuse for his views, which in my opinion make him gravely unfit to be a pastor of the Church.

I also disagree with the implication of Fellay and some others that “history” is a kind of academic curiosity best left to specialists – that as long as the man is fit dogmatically, he’s entitled to his own personal opinions about what happened in the past, and we can take them with a grain of salt. But we should never take history with a grain of salt. If we are expected to know enough about history to accept that Jesus Christ, who was killed 2000 years ago with barely any historical documentation to attest to it, is risen from the dead, I think we can be expected to understand something about the 6 million murders that occurred barely 60 years ago.

History is the story of reality unfolding over time; there is truth to be found there. Bishops are not just called upon to understand academic theology – they are called upon to understand the truth. Why? Well, understanding the implications of this historical event is important for pastoral reasons, of course (we have an especially urgent moral responsibility to appreciate our closeness to the Jewish people), but also – it is the truth which sets us free. To take just one practical example, it was deniers like Williamson who didn’t believe such a thing could be happening that allowed the Holocaust to be perpetuated in so many Catholic and Christian countries during the 30s and 40s.

In the end, I trust Pope Benedict’s decision, but I certainly hope that he will have something to say about this one particular “bishop” and his either poisonous or woefully misguided statements.

Peace,
+AMDG+
 
Way to dodge the question!! 😉

With all due respect, this was an excellent objection that cuts straight to the heart of many people’s feelings about the SSPX. The topic of the thread is people’s feelings about the SSPX’s rehabilitation – I certainly think this is a place to air grievances (so that those of us who have worries about the group can rationally defend ourselves). No? After all, we have talked a great deal about the SSPX’s doctrinal stances already…

Maybe it would be ok to start a new thread, but if we do so, I hope someone responds to this post, because I think it’s insightful. Quoting Eucharistic Prayer III – well done.

Peace,
+AMDG+
If you really want an answer in this thread, it’s simple:

The Society’s objection is that there is no mention of the end of the sacrifice, which is the remission of sins.

The TLM contains clear reference to it, while the OF does not.
 
Thank you for passing this on.

For me, the most disgusting part of this interview was towards the end, when Williamson says, “I’m not interested in anti-semitism.”

Ahhh, how convenient – he’s not interested in anti-semitism. I hope that this speaks volumes to those of you who obstinately refuse to accept that a man’s “historical opinion,”
Peace,
+AMDG+

]

If someone asks — Lets go stone that house.
Another answers ----I am not interested in stoning that house.

Then by your view the second person can be charged with actually condoning the stoning of the house for saying they will not take part in the stoning of the house.
 
[Since when were the words of consecration spoken the way Christ said them illicit].
The Catechism of the Council of Trent says that there was a good reason why the phrase “for many” was used.
 
Way to dodge the question!! 😉

With all due respect, this was an excellent objection that cuts straight to the heart of many people’s feelings about the SSPX. The topic of the thread is people’s feelings about the SSPX’s rehabilitation –
That is a judgement call. In any case, one should certainly feel free not to chase other topics without a stigma of dodging a question.

I regret so many are reading into this one act. On one hand you have those who think they have the right to question the Pope on how he deals with the excommunication of some one else. Guess what folks, this is none of our business. This action is between them and the Church. I have seen more liberally leaning priest and bishops do far more drastic things while being pastoral. These men or party of our same body. This petty resentment to this lifting is the most unCrhistian thing I have every seen

On the other hand, this is not an endorsement of the SSPX or, as one person put it, and a turning from perceived heresies of Vatican II.
 
Thread has gone off-topic and will be closed.
Special note: Although discussion of the SSPX excommunications is now allowed, tone must remain charitable. If there are any firefights on the topic, the topic will be subject to being banned (either temporarily or permanently).
 
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