Jacob and Esau why did God bless Jacob's lie

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

It might be instructive to note what Jewish tradition says about Jacob and Esau - not that it’s binding in any way if it conflicts with the CCC, of course. Our former neighbor, a Chassidic Jew, said that the passage referring to the twins as “contending” within the womb means that Jacob had actually been destined to be born first, but the babies wrestled in the womb and Esau managed to supplant Jacob. In this view, then, Jacob is winning back the birthright that his Creator had intended for him.

(Interestingly, this same neighbor said that Leah, for whom I’ve always felt sorry - ‘I’m having another son for him, maybe now he’ll love me more than her’ - had been destined to marry Esau. Knowing what he would become, she had prayed long and fervently for that destiny to change, and the Lord answered her prayers. In this view, playing second fiddle to her prettier sister was a blessing compared with the life she would have had as Esau’s wife.)

The deception is still problematic, but I suppose the answer is that even holy people can sin sometimes, and that God alone knows their hearts and can judge. Look at David and Bathsheba, after all. Look at St. Peter, who denied Our Lord three times, yet was forgiven and given the keys to the Kingdom.

:twocents:

Peace-
-mdr

Thank you.

 

[mdr]

You’re very welcome, Cherie!

There’s so much in the Bible that parents need to ponder well before explaining to our children. It’s not easy, and we all come up with our own unique solutions. While my general approach (in life as well as religious study) has been not to Bowdlerize but instead to present what’s actually there in simple, age-appropriate terms and then interpret its lesson, coming up with age-appropriate terms that don’t obscure the meaning can be really tough.

The more experience I have as a mom, the more I appreciate the sort of advice given in a little prayer book called “Mother’s Manual.” It’s quite old-fashioned, but its general approach looks more and more sound as the years go by. It makes a whole lot more sense now than it did when I was expecting our oldest!

Good luck with your little guys! My son is 8 and vastly outnumbered by his 3 sisters. Boys are lots of fun, aren’t they? But “boy world” is a real culture shock after starting with daughters - talk about different!

Peace-
-mdr

 

[KingAlfred]

When you make the incorrect assumption that “killing” equals “murder”, the conclusions based on it become invalid. God is immutable and He didn’t murder anyone, nor did He command anyone to murder.

Your logic is very disappointing. Dead children equal murder.

 

[KingAlfred]

This is pure fiction. This is direct quote from Dei Verbum:

This quote refers to Jesus. I’m referring to the OT. Again, you’re treating the Bible as a book. It’s not a book. It’s a library. Some books within it are easier on the conscience than others.

Nope. The god who ordered the Israelites to commit genocide wasn’t the Christian god. It wasn’t the Jewish God, either. God would never order a holocaust. Jesus stands against murder, war, conquest, slavery, oppression, exploitation and all other forms of abuse. That is my Christology. ***JESUS IS PRO-LIFE. ***

 

[KingAlfred]

It might be instructive to note what Jewish tradition says about Jacob and Esau - not that it’s binding in any way if it conflicts with the CCC, of course. Our former neighbor, a Chassidic Jew, said that the passage referring to the twins as “contending” within the womb means that Jacob had actually been destined to be born first, but the babies wrestled in the womb and Esau managed to supplant Jacob. In this view, then, Jacob is winning back the birthright that his Creator had intended for him.

(Interestingly, this same neighbor said that Leah, for whom I’ve always felt sorry - ‘I’m having another son for him, maybe now he’ll love me more than her’ - had been destined to marry Esau. Knowing what he would become, she had prayed long and fervently for that destiny to change, and the Lord answered her prayers. In this view, playing second fiddle to her prettier sister was a blessing compared with the life she would have had as Esau’s wife.)

The deception is still problematic, but I suppose the answer is that even holy people can sin sometimes, and that God alone knows their hearts and can judge. Look at David and Bathsheba, after all. Look at St. Peter, who denied Our Lord three times, yet was forgiven and given the keys to the Kingdom.

:twocents:

Peace-
-mdr

Indeed. I praise your thoughtfulness in Biblical interpretation.

 

[NotWorthy]

This quote refers to Jesus. I’m referring to the OT. Again, you’re treating the Bible as a book. It’s not a book. It’s a library. Some books within it are easier on the conscience than others.

Nope.** The god who ordered the Israelites to commit genocide wasn’t the Christian god. It wasn’t the Jewish God, either. God would never order a holocaust**. Jesus stands against murder, war, conquest, slavery, oppression, exploitation and all other forms of abuse. That is my Christology. ***JESUS IS PRO-LIFE. ***

This is so far off-base, I don’t know where to start…

 

[mdr]

Indeed. I praise your thoughtfulness in Biblical interpretation.

Well, thanks. Those Mercy Sisters were good teachers .

Peace-
-mdr

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

This is so far off-base, I don’t know where to start…

NotWorthy, I wouldn’t either. He says a lot of things in a lot of threads that are so off that I wonder about his knowing Christ Jesus at all, let alone in a Roman Catholic stance. I am trying to pray for him. It would be nice if he said something that was loyal to either the Church or to Jesus in the OT or NT. I just haven’t seen it. I keep hoping.

Alfred, please understand. No one is saying that Jesus is not pro life. I am saying with a heart filled with sorrow that you seem to not know or understand much about Him at all. You don’t believe anything that you, yourself, cannot understand. Please, please have faith. No one can fathom the Mind or Actions of God. But the words of the Bible, and the traditions of the Church, are still the truth. Nothing that anyone can say or do can ever change that…no matter what. Please, for your own soul’s sake, have faith. The things done by God in the OT in no real way (as opposed to ways that the mortal mind might come up with…which are not real) take away from Who or What He is.

 

[cheri7]

Did Rebekah and Jacob do such a terrible thing?
This ‘trick’ fulfilled God’s plan, which was for Jacob to father Israel. If Rebekah knew/loved her sons both, she also knew Essau was not going to fulfill his responsibility to his birthright… like a mother always does discern these things. (do you give your son the keys to the car just because he turns 16)

I say she was a very courageous woman who did what was right, even knowing her culture wouldn’t agree with her.
Isaac probably would have lost most if not all of his land had he given it all to Essau. Perhaps this was tough love… Rebekah knew their might be heck to pay for her actions, but she wasn’t going to let that stand in her way of doing what was right.

Perhaps the difficulty that followed Jacob was just the devil trying to stand in the way of what God called him too… maybe nothing to do with ‘curse’. That’s what he does in my life, try to discourage when I the right things.

 

[the_phoenix]

Did Rebekah and Jacob do such a terrible thing?
This ‘trick’ fulfilled God’s plan, which was for Jacob to father Israel. If Rebekah knew/loved her sons both, she also knew Essau was not going to fulfill his responsibility to his birthright… like a mother always does discern these things. (do you give your son the keys to the car just because he turns 16)

I say she was a very courageous woman who did what was right, even knowing her culture wouldn’t agree with her.
Isaac probably would have lost most if not all of his land had he given it all to Essau. Perhaps this was tough love… Rebekah knew their might be heck to pay for her actions, but she wasn’t going to let that stand in her way of doing what was right.

Perhaps the difficulty that followed Jacob was just the devil trying to stand in the way of what God called him too… maybe nothing to do with ‘curse’. That’s what he does in my life, try to discourage when I the right things.

What an insightful and inspiring post!