James White calls Called to Communion to the carpet on the Assumption of Mary

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Many replies. Lot’s of ad hominem. Yet no one has stepped up to the plate to take the challenge.
 
As someone brought up, to understand the Assumption of Mary into heaven…which represents our eventual glorification in heaven when we are finally reunited with the Lord…you have to understand the Eucharist.

You have to go back and recognize the fact that Christ already presented the concept of eating His flesh and blood before the Last Supper, and how most left Him.

Yet you look at the Bible in the Old Testament, going all the way back to Genesis…how to become divine, one must eat of fruit…the good fruit of the Tree of Life or the bad fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil…to Melchizidek who prophesized of the forthcoming High Priest, the bringing forth of gifts of bread and wine, the manna from heaven, to the New Testament of placing Christ in an animal feeder.

Christ being the fruit of the Good Tree that brings us Eternal Life…and this sanctity of the Eucharist draws us gradually into greater mysteries of God Himself…Who He is and who we are not…this being the study of Catholic perfection/union with God/ascetism…penance, self denial, the purgative way, the way of illumination, the way of divine union…and the teachings of many saints down through the ages, nurtured on the Eucharist, venerating His living tabernacle, the Blessed Mother…all the different saints…different charisms and times and conditions…but always bearing fruit to the same Jesus…that always reflects Mary.

Mary is a creature like us, but is the bridge to Christ and the Heavenly Father…and her soul was pierced when Christ was only 40 days old at His presentation…that she would share in HIs sufferings to bring redemption to mankind.

Mary was no ordinary woman…She was created by God, an exceptional woman to bring forth the messiah…she did not sin…she followed Him into glory…

The feast day of the Assumption of Mary is August 15. The feast day of Christ’s Transfiguration, where He met ancient prophets on the Mount with several apostles…is the sign that He will soon begin His divine ministry…as such, Mary began her heavenly ministry in her assumption into heaven. All we know is that the ancient witnesses describe the event as shocking…

You cannot understand our knowledge of Mary, who began her ministry to us around 200 A.D., down through the ages…the communion of saints, without understanding the Eucharist and sacraments with the Word of God…and their contribution to the understanding in depth our original vocation in life: holiness.

In essence: We Catholic followers of Christ see Christ as Logos…Christ IS the Word of God…but He is much more than words…

Christ is the Word Made Flesh…actualized and the source of life and faith lived out in the Church.

To sit back and shoot Bible quotes back and forth regarding the life of the Church is totally missing the point as well as touch on sacred ground. The fellow has no intent of dialogue but putting down. He has no knowledge of the ancient church, and does not want to recognize its legitimate existence…that is why he comes on so strong…

He wants the Bible with no church…and that goes against Christ and instituting His Church at the Last Supper…He is going against the will of Christ and His Church…opposite of Mother Mary who always sought to do God’s will.
 
Assumption of Mary into heaven…is Mary going into eternal life.

Christ said to eat of His flesh and blood, we would gain eternal life…Peter and the apostles did not leave because they knew only Christ could give them eternal life.

Again, what is missing is connecting the Word of God, after Pentecost, to real life. After the apostles died, then what happened…a big free for all, the intent to maintain the truth and life of Christ for each generation dissipated…no more Holy Spirit?

It goes back, really, to documentation, not the Bible because it cannot help us after Revelation of what happened after the death of St. John the Evangelist.

You have to get educated…really seek an objective education in ancient church history, recognize the different cultural, geographic, and political areas and their specific jurisdictions, and see how the faith of the apostles was lived out.

You will find out the ancient practices still exist today in Scripture, Worship, Creed made viable through sustained God given authority found in Christ’s Church.

The full revelation of Jesus Christ was not completed until the Council of Nicea in completing defining His divine and human natures.

Also note, that it just wasn’t the Apostles at Pentecost…Mary, the Blessed Mother of Christ was there with tongues of fire over her head, as well as over a hundred other people in the Upper Room…the ecclesial, the Church began at Pentecost in the Upper Room with many people and different walks of life, including Mary.

Don’t you think the apostles in this time would want to learn more about Christ and His whole life through none other than His mother? She advised the apostles and taught them many more things about the life of Christ…

Christ did not grow up in a home with sin.
 
Chafer_DTS said:
His remains are buried. He physically died as Joshua 1:1 tells us. The death is Moses is specifically recorded for us in Deu 34. God made sure no know where Moses was buried specifically. Just because his body was never found does not mean that he was physically resurrected and taken to heaven. We are never told of this at all. Thus is provides no proof for the assumption of Mary either.
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Jude 1:9 Yet the archangel Michael, when he argued with the devil in a dispute over the body of Moses, did not venture to pronounce a reviling judgment* upon him but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”
 
Truth has a way of coming out in time…

Fact is nothing came to the contrary in the universal church that contradicted original believers’ veneration of Mary and forthcoming belief that she, like her Son, was assumed into the glory of heaven.

If she was not assumed into heaven, the Holy Spirit would have corrected the faithful.

You cannot deny this either as you have no belief in God given authority at work in those chosen, consecreted in truth and spirit either…as you have no sanctioned ecclesial authority in your beliefs, you cannot disparage or disprove either Mary was not assumed.

Bible only believers have no history, no church. So you are missing everything the Church provides you as well as the testimony of Christianity itself.

You are reducing faith to talk, discussions, disputes…In his 2nd epistle, St. Peter said we were to avoid personal interpretation. that only leads to dissension and all sorts of beliefs.
 
Chafer_DTS said:
The burden of proof lies on the RCC to show the assumption of Mary. It has to make a positive case for it’s position. It is a very bad thing when it tries to shift the burden of proof to another. Basically using the universal negavative fallacy for an argument. We lack evidence in the most early church fathers on the assumption of Mary. If this doctrine was held we would find this in the most early writings yet we do not. I saw no proof of it.

We dont have the remains of Peter and Paul either. Mary is equally positionally with all other Christians in the eyes of God. Mary like all Christians have the same spiritual blessings as Paul taught in Eph. 1:3. All Christians are viewed positionally equally in the eyes of God. Mary has no special blessings that other believers do not have. Mary merely gave birth to the Lord Jesus Christ and was therefore the GodBearer. That is what makes her blessed.
Peter’s grave is under the main alter at St. Peters and Paul’s body is also under the alter in St. Pauls in Rome. Do you celebrate Christmas? The date in not in the bible. Your attitude in amazing

I saw it and looked puzzled at the total lack of biblical and historical evidence in it. Makes me wonder how in the world someone can believe the bad arguments that it used.
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In simple words your assessment is incorrect as I’m not “protesting” anything.

Have a great day, JC.
 
Arizona_Samson said:
In simple words your assessment is incorrect as I’m not “protesting” anything.

Have a great day, JC.
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Not even Catholic teaching??

The word “Protestant” is not derived from folks protesting Catholic corruption of the word as so many protestants enjoy believing. It came from non-Catholics protesting the rights of Catholics to have the holy sacrafice of the mass in their own churches.
 
Well then by your own definition you are also a “protestant” as you have protested historic Evangelical Christianity throughout these boards.

Welcome to our club. 😉
 
haha, yup. Even going as far as to START this thread in order to challenge us to a debate on one of our Catholic doctrines. Hilarious!
 
Link0126 said:
haha, yup. Even going as far as to START this thread in order to challenge us to a debate on one of our Catholic doctrines. Hilarious!
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Read the OP and you’ll see the laugh is on you as I didn’t start this thread in order challenge anyone but to bring attention to the challenge put forth to Called to Communion by one Mr. James White.

Have a great day.
 
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