Jan 10 Gospel Question

[Joe_Kelley]

John 3:22-30

22* After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized. 23 John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and people came and were baptized. 24* For John had not yet been put in prison. 25 Now a discussion arose between John’s disciples and a Jew over purifying. 26* And they came to John, and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you bore witness, here he is, baptizing, and all are going to him.” 27* John answered, “No one can receive anything except what is given him from heaven. 28* You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him. 29* He who has the bride is the bridegroom; the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom’s voice; therefore this joy of mine is now full. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”

How does verse 25 relate to the rest of this?

 

[jean8]

John 3:22-30 How does verse 25 relate to the rest of this?

joe,
Perhaps the disciples of John were confused . or jealous.
Jesus had not told John to stop baptizing unto repentance, so he continued to do what he was sent to do.
Verse 31-34 anwsers your question.

God bless,
jean8

This is my opinion. I’m not a teacher, just another believer.

 

[cheeto1]

John 3:22-30 How does verse 25 relate to the rest of this?

Maybe it relates by saying that the baptising is purifying?

 

[Verbum]

Hi Joe,

Since this is in the context of baptisms, the controversy would seem to be about the purifying baptism of Jesus and the purifiying baptism of John.

Verbum

 

[Nita]

Hi Joe,

Since this is in the context of baptisms, the controversy would seem to be about the purifying baptism of Jesus and the purifiying baptism of John.

Verbum

This would be my thought too.
Perhaps the Jew was asking if there was a difference; questioning whose baptism (Jesus’ or John’s) it would be best to receive.

 

[ryanoneil]

My NAB footnotes says: "A Jew: some think Jesus is meant. Many manuscripts read “Jews.”

I had to read the verses a few times, but it seems plausible.

**Now a dispute arose between the disciples of John and a Jew about ceremonial washings. So they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, the one who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you testified, here he is baptizing and everyone is coming to him.” **

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Thanks to all for the ideas and comments. - Joe

 

[Strategery]

Here’s commentary from Aquinas, it’s in line with Verbum’s post above. Purification is baptism, and the followers of John are confused why one who was baptized by John is now baptising and being followed.

This issue did go on for a while. In Acts we are told of some who were preaching the word of God but had only had the “baptism of John.”​

op-stjoseph.org/Students/study/thomas/John3.htm

506 Then when he says, A controversy arose, he brings in the issue of the two baptisms. First, the issue is mentioned. Secondly, it is brought to John’s attention (v 26). Thirdly, the issue is resolved.

507 Because both John and Christ were baptizing, the disciples of John, out of zeal for their teacher, started a controversy over this. And this is what he says, A controversy arose, i.e., a dispute, between the disciples of John, who were the first to raise the issue, and the Jews, whom the disciples of John had rebuked for preferring Christ, because of the miracles he did, to John, who did not do any miracles. The issue was concerning purification, i.e., baptizing. The cause of their envy and the reason why they started the controversy was the fact that John sent those he baptized to Christ, but Christ did not send those he baptized to John. It seemed from this, and perhaps the Jews even said so, that Christ was greater than John. Thus, the disciples of John, having not yet become spiritual, quarreled with the Jews over the baptisms. “While there is envy and fighting among you, are you not carnal?” (1 Cor 3:3).

508 They referred this issue to John; hence he says, They went to John. If we examine this closely, we see that they were trying to incite John against Christ. Indeed, they are like the gossip and the double-tongued: “Those who gossip and are double-tongued are accursed, for they disturb many who are at peace” (Sir 28:15).

So they bring up four things calculated to set John against Christ. First, they recall the previous unimportant status of Christ. Secondly, the good John did for him. Thirdly, the role which Christ took on. Fourthly, the loss to John because of Christ’s new role.

509 They recall Christ’s unimportance when they say, the man who was with you, as one of your disciples; and not the one you were with as your teacher. For there is no good reason for envy if honor is shown to one who is greater; rather, envy is aroused when honor is given to an inferior: “I have seen slaves on horses, and princes walking like slaves” (Ecc 10:7); “I called my servant, and he did not answer me” (Jb 19:16). For a master is more disturbed at the rebellion of a servant and a subject than of anyone else.

510 Secondly, they remind John of the good he did Christ. Thus they do not say, “the one whom you baptized,” because they would then be admitting the greatness of Christ which was shown during his baptism when the Holy Spirit came upon him in the form of a dove and in the voice of the Father speaking to him. So they say, the one of whom you have given testimony, i.e., we are very angry that the one you made famous and admired dares to repay you in this way: “The one who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me” (Ps 40:10). They said this because those who seek their own glory and personal profit from their office become dejected if their office is taken over by someone else

511 And so thirdly, they even add that Christ took over John’s office for himself, when they say, he is here baptizing, i.e., he is exercising your office; and this also distrubed them very much. For we generally see that men of the same craft are envious and underhanded with respect to one another; a potter envies another potter, but does not envy a carpenter. So, even teachers, who are seeking their own honor, become sad if another teaches the truth. In opposition to them, Gregory says: “The mind of a holy pastor wishes that others teach the truth which he cannot teach all by himself.” So also Moses: “Would that all the people might prophesy,” as we read in Numbers (11:29).

512 Yet they were not satisfied with merely disturbing John, rather they report something that should really excite him, that is, the loss that John seemed to be having because of the office Christ took over. They give this when they say: and all the people are flocking to him, i.e., the ones who used to come to you. In other words, they have rejected and disowned you, and now are all going to his baptism. It is clear from Matthew (11:7) that they used to go to John: “What did you go into the desert to see?” The same envy affected the Pharisees against Christ; so they said: “Look, the whole world has gone after him” (below 12:19). However, all this did not set John againt Christ, for he was not a reed swaying in the wind, and this is clear from John’s answer to their question.