Jealousy - ever justified or good?

[faithhopelove]

I got into a discussion about jealousy in marital relationships. My argument was that the classic definition of love in 1 Cor 13 says Love is not jealous, and therefore, it has no place in a loving relationship and can be very destructive.

The other person countered that one of the main themes throughout the Bible, esp the OT, is that God is a jealous God, he becomes jealous whenever anything or anyone else has a “part” of us that he can’t have. This is due to the covenant between GOd and Israel, and since that covenant is analogous to the covenant of marriage, a spouse is justified in being jealous of anything that is not unique to their relationship. For example, say a husband had a previous marriage declared null, whereas its the first marriage for the wife. This person argues that the wife is justified in her jealousy of the “first” marriage, even if it wasn’t a true covenantial relationship because the the husband still shared experiences that should have been reserved for his current wife. Essentially, she should feel jealous, because the former spouse has a piece of her husband that she can’t have, and anger is to be expected from jealousy.

The other person argues that when we sin against God or deny him our loyalty, he still has the right to be jealous even though he forgives us, because there is a part of our lives that God will never have.

What do you think of this argument? I feel like there is something inherently wrong with the argument, but I can’t argue with the fact that God is a jealous God, and I don’t where the disconnect is.

Any thoughts?

 

[Island_Oak]

I have always taken the passages about a “jealous God” the same way as I look at the 1st Commandment–that God loves us purely and unselfishly and always has our best interests in mind. He knows that our separation from him, through worship of other gods, literally or figuratively (ie pursuit of wealth, power, materialism, hedonism, etc.) is destructive to us and He hates the harmful influence, though He always loves us.

Human love can embody these same virtues. When we truly love someone, we cannot stand to see them make choices or act in ways we know are destructive to their soul and relationship with God. This is not selfish jealousy, but a sincere concern for the welfare of the beloved. If we are reacting out of selfishness or covet for ourselves what another has–that is an offensive form of jealousy and can be highly destructive to any relationship–whether romantic, parent/child, etc.

Jealousy over a prior marrige can be a tough issue. Given that it is in the past–it seems futile to resent the actions of the spouse which are completed and in the past. There is nothing that is currently or actively detrimental to the spouse who was previously married. The feelings of the new spouse who resents not being the “first” or “only” spouse, while possibly understandable at some level, are nonetheless selfish and rather petty. The focus is clearly not on the welfare of the previously married spouse, but on the tempermental emotions of the second spouse. If is is not something that he/she can rise above, then perhaps marriage under such circumstances is not appropriate.

 

[kage_ar]

Song of Solomon 8:6 (DR)

“Put me as a seal upon thy heart, as a seal upon thy arm, for love is strong as death, jealousy as hard as hell, the lamps thereof are fire and flames.”

Sums up jealousy to me.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Okay,what about this scenerio:ehh: Your married and your husband is flirting with your friend and she is flirting back You enter the room and they stop talking Then your friend is calling your husband on the phone all the time and doing car work for free while she flirts and stroke his ego In that situation would jealousy be in order or a cast Iron skillet

 

[Genesis315]

Lisa4Catholics:

Okay,what about this scenerio:ehh: Your married and your husband is flirting with your friend and she is flirting back You enter the room and they stop talking Then your friend is calling your husband on the phone all the time and doing car work for free while she flirts and stroke his ego In that situation would jealousy be in order or a cast Iron skillet

Cast iron skillet. Or rolling pin.

 

[jasm]

I vote for skillet

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Genesis315:

Cast iron skillet. Or rolling pin.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

jasm:

I vote for skillet

 

[kage_ar]

Lisa4Catholics:

Okay,what about this scenerio:ehh: Your married and your husband is flirting with your friend and she is flirting back You enter the room and they stop talking Then your friend is calling your husband on the phone all the time and doing car work for free while she flirts and stroke his ego In that situation would jealousy be in order or a cast Iron skillet

We should all help our friends - if there is true flirting as in direct attempts to attract the other person in a sexual way, there is a problem that should be discussed with a priest or other professional. I would hope it is just immaturity that could be worked through with some help. Being “jealous” is not going to do anything but encourage that kind of action… sad, sad.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

kage_ar:

We should all help our friends - if there is true flirting as in direct attempts to attract the other person in a sexual way, there is a problem that should be discussed with a priest or other professional. I would hope it is just immaturity that could be worked through with some help. Being “jealous” is not going to do anything but encourage that kind of action… sad, sad.

IS the also a vote against the skillet?

 

[deb1]

Lisa4Catholics:

Okay,what about this scenerio:ehh: Your married and your husband is flirting with your friend and she is flirting back You enter the room and they stop talking Then your friend is calling your husband on the phone all the time and doing car work for free while she flirts and stroke his ego In that situation would jealousy be in order or a cast Iron skillet

I think that commonsense would be to get a different friend. I would also have a serious discussion with my spouse.

 

[deb1]

kage_ar:

We should all help our friends - if there is true flirting as in direct attempts to attract the other person in a sexual way, there is a problem that should be discussed with a priest or other professional. I would hope it is just immaturity that could be worked through with some help. Being “jealous” is not going to do anything but encourage that kind of action… sad, sad.

No, no, NO! :banghead: If the wife uses this approach she will find herself facing the prospect of being replaced by her friend. Even if nothing physical has happened this is a dangerous situation. Don’t hit the man over the head with a skillet, instead have an honest conversation. Tell him that crushes are normal but that they can lead to temptation. Also, confront her. Let her know that not only is she not allowed in the house but that you do not want her friendship. Just cut off contact. You can show Christian Charity by praying for her from a distance. Nowhere in the bible does it say that a christian woman should lay on the floor and let another woman step on her way towards her husband! Sorry to sound so rough, but I have actually known women in this situation. Not only did I end up outraged at the man and friend, but the wife also, for being such a wus. So this subject,- hopefully meant in fun-, hits a chord with me. I hope that it is just a made up example. I like you from your post. If I knew where you’d lived-well, there’s nothing more scary then an angry southern gal! I also have three heavy cast iron skillets and I am willing to share.

 

[faithhopelove]

Island Oak:

I have always taken the passages about a “jealous God” the same way as I look at the 1st Commandment–that God loves us purely and unselfishly and always has our best interests in mind. He knows that our separation from him, through worship of other gods, literally or figuratively (ie pursuit of wealth, power, materialism, hedonism, etc.) is destructive to us and He hates the harmful influence, though He always loves us.

Human love can embody these same virtues. When we truly love someone, we cannot stand to see them make choices or act in ways we know are destructive to their soul and relationship with God. This is not selfish jealousy, but a sincere concern for the welfare of the beloved. If we are reacting out of selfishness or covet for ourselves what another has–that is an offensive form of jealousy and can be highly destructive to any relationship–whether romantic, parent/child, etc.

Jealousy over a prior marrige can be a tough issue. Given that it is in the past–it seems futile to resent the actions of the spouse which are completed and in the past. There is nothing that is currently or actively detrimental to the spouse who was previously married. The feelings of the new spouse who resents not being the “first” or “only” spouse, while possibly understandable at some level, are nonetheless selfish and rather petty. The focus is clearly not on the welfare of the previously married spouse, but on the tempermental emotions of the second spouse. If is is not something that he/she can rise above, then perhaps marriage under such circumstances is not appropriate.

thank you for this explanation, I think it is what I knew intuitively but was unable to articulate.

As far as the other situation, I don’t really agree with the rolling pin/pot solution – I think if the spouse acts out of jealousy, it is more likely to manifest in anger, possible driving the “flirting” spouse further away and more indignent about the acceptability of her actions. If the spouse approaches it out of an unselfish love, bringing his uncomfortability with the situation to the attention of the flirting spouse and voicing his concerns and feelings about the situation and request a mutually acceptable agreement to solve the issue. This addressed the issue without condeming or making the flirting spouse feel under attack; I feel that acting out of jealousy in that situation (and most other situations) is not the way to truly love the spouse. Of course, I realize that drawing the line between addressing the issue out of love versus addressing out of jealousy can sometimes be splitting hairs, but I think its a important distinction.

 

[777]

Island Oak:

I have always taken the passages about a “jealous God” the same way as I look at the 1st Commandment–that God loves us purely and unselfishly and always has our best interests in mind. He knows that our separation from him, through worship of other gods, literally or figuratively (ie pursuit of wealth, power, materialism, hedonism, etc.) is destructive to us and He hates the harmful influence, though He always loves us.

Human love can embody these same virtues. When we truly love someone, we cannot stand to see them make choices or act in ways we know are destructive to their soul and relationship with God. This is not selfish jealousy, but a sincere concern for the welfare of the beloved. If we are reacting out of selfishness or covet for ourselves what another has–that is an offensive form of jealousy and can be highly destructive to any relationship–whether romantic, parent/child, etc.

Jealousy over a prior marrige can be a tough issue. Given that it is in the past–it seems futile to resent the actions of the spouse which are completed and in the past. There is nothing that is currently or actively detrimental to the spouse who was previously married. The feelings of the new spouse who resents not being the “first” or “only” spouse, while possibly understandable at some level, are nonetheless selfish and rather petty. The focus is clearly not on the welfare of the previously married spouse, but on the tempermental emotions of the second spouse. If is is not something that he/she can rise above, then perhaps marriage under such circumstances is not appropriate.

Don’t forget the sins of celebrity worship, as well as worship for politicians (even the president), as well as all awards shows (Grammys, Emmys, Tonys and Oscars included).:tsktsk:Not to mention love and worship for all things earthly, including worshipping and loving earthly nations like America. Didn’t St. Paul say we shouldn’t love the world?