Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and the definition of "Christian"

[Corki]

As far as Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons are concerned, I’ve seen a lot people say that they’re not Christian. But what does someone believe that qualifies them as a “Christian”

From a Catholic perspective, a Christian is someone with a valid Baptism. The Baptisms of Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are not valid - primarily because they do not baptize using a Trinitarian formula.

It isn’t a judgement on how the person does or does not follow Christ. It is simply a factual statement on his/her relation to the Body of Christ.

 

[ThereWasADream]

The problem being, if even Catholics begin to believe that Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are Christian, this will in the end lend itself to a non-missionary attitude (as is already somewhat common in certain sectors of the Church: “don’t convert, it’s not ecumenical”).

FALSE. You are operating under the assumption that “Christian” equates having the truth. It only means that they have some part of the truth. I would call a Baptist Christian, but I would not say that he has the truth (complete truth) because he or she would definitely not believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, among many other things. By calling him Christian, will I decide not to try to bring him to the Church? Heck no! Why aren’t you applying this same logic to Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Heck, even if I broadened the term “Christian” to mean “anyone I want to believe is Christian” and called anyone I want a Christian, does that mean that all of their beliefs are suddenly validated? NO! It doesn’t. That’s why I’m trying to explain to you how pointless this argument is.

 

[PeterL]

If the trinitarian doctrine is what determines if a church is Christian, than if it turns out that God is not trinitarian, then trinitarians are not Christians. There are highly intelligent people that believe both ways. An intelectual analysis of the bible clearly is not enough to determine what is true.

 

[bz5]

If the trinitarian doctrine is what determines if a church is Christian, than if it turns out that God is not trinitarian, then trinitarians are not Christians. There are highly intelligent people that believe both ways. An intelectual analysis of the bible clearly is not enough to determine what is true.

I think you’re right that intelligent, sincere people can reasonably interpret the Bible in different ways. After all, the Bible itself warns us it’s not always easy to read. But that’s why Jesus started a church and the Holy Spirit, as promised, guides it into truth faithfully.

 

[Khalid]

If the trinitarian doctrine is what determines if a church is Christian, than if it turns out that God is not trinitarian, then trinitarians are not Christians. There are highly intelligent people that believe both ways. An intelectual analysis of the bible clearly is not enough to determine what is true.

But there is no way to interpret the Bible as anything other than monotheistic.

Your argument is also fallacious:

1. Christians are Trinitarians.
2. God is not a Trinity.
3. Therefore, Trinitarians are not Christians.

It is a non sequitur.

 

[Regardless]

Adherence to the Nicene Creed.

If that is the case - everyone before the year 325 were not Christian! Including all of Jesus apostles. None of them had ever heard of the Nicean creed.
But of course they were Chrisitans. They followed Christ, not a creed of the catholic church.

Jehovah’s witnesses do consider themselves Christian. They follow Jesus teachings as best they can. Including the preaching of God’s Kingdom that he set the example in doing. (and which they are known globally to be doing to the great annoyance of the “Chrisians” who don’t)

Here is a link to their official website with the very question “what does it mean to be a Chrisian” discussed:
watchtower.org/e/200704b/article_01.htm

Once you have read it, what do you think? Is a Chrisitan a follower of Christ or the Nicean creed?

 

[JimmytheButcher]

If the trinitarian doctrine is what determines if a church is Christian, than if it turns out that God is not trinitarian, then trinitarians are not Christians. There are highly intelligent people that believe both ways. An intelectual analysis of the bible clearly is not enough to determine what is true.

Friend,

Please do not be sacrilegious. The most blessed Trinity is of the upmost importance. All life spirates out of the Father and the Son by way of the holy Spirit. The holy Spirit finds His greatest signification in the most blessed ever-Virgin Mary. To insist on anything else is a hiss out of hell. And make no mistake hell is eternal.

God is most certainly Trinitarian. We know this from the Revelation found in the Annunciation to Mary by the angel.

Mormons are not Christians because they philosophically deny the Incarnation of the Son. Following this is most egregious denial of the indwelling of the God-head. In denying the Incarnation, despite calling themselves the Perfect, Mormons deny even themselves as they deny the fundamental goodness of all matter in His Creation. There is no life without Christ.

I hope you seek the true Sacrament of Baptism.

 

[T_More]

If that is the case - everyone before the year 325 were not Christian! Including all of Jesus apostles. None of them had ever heard of the Nicean creed.

Who were the Christians after the book of Revelation and before the Council of Nicea?

But of course they were Chrisitans. They followed Christ, not a creed of the catholic church.

**So what you are saying is that true Christians do not follow a creed? Let’s take a look at the definiton of the word “creed”:

creed (krd)
n.

1. A formal statement of religious belief; a confession of faith.
2. A system of belief, principles, or opinions:

Would it be fair to say that JW’s follow a creed?

**
Jehovah’s witnesses do consider themselves Christian. They follow Jesus teachings as best they can. Including the preaching of God’s Kingdom that he set the example in doing. (and which they are known globally to be doing to the great annoyance of the “Chrisians” who don’t)

Is it your opinion that people that call themselves Christian outside the WTBS do not share their faith with others through ministry?

Here is a link to their official website with the very question “what does it mean to be a Chrisian” discussed:
watchtower.org/e/200704b/article_01.htm

Once you have read it, what do you think? Is a Chrisitan a follower of Christ or the Nicean creed?

Are Christians a religion of a book, or is the bible a product of the religion? What came first?

 

[Elzee]

If the Nicene Creed is the criteria, it states “I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sin” (I hope that’s close…). Does that mean Protestants who believe baptism is only symbolic and does not wash away original sin are not Christians? That would discount most of the evangelical Christians. Or am I mis-interpreting this statement in the Creed?