Jesus´s Knowledge: Divine vs Human

[Jerry-Jet]

Did Jesus learn to talk as an infant or was He born already talking and having all knowledge?

Did Joseph ever teach Him anything He did not already know?

 

[rightofcenter77]

Did Jesus learn to talk as an infant or was He born already talking and having all knowledge?

Did Joseph ever teach Him anything He did not already know?

Such an interesting question. In the holiday movie that came out last year (can’t remember the name), Jesus’ birth was depicted. You saw St. Joseph saying many of the same things that Jesus would later say in his ministry (such as condemning the use of the temple by merchants for profit). Joseph played a very integral part in God’s plan by shaping the human nature of Jesus.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I know that Jesus was fully God and fully man and He certainly wasn’t two people.

Did He choose not to take advantage of some of His divine attributes to experience the human attributes?

In other words did He choose not to use His Infinite knowledge–even as an infant–so He could expereince the human experience of growing in stature and wisdom of God?

I think this is the case but I also believe that Jesus did use His Infinite knowledge whever it concerned His Father’s will.

So in my opinion–and others correct me if I’m wrong–Jesus always knew He was the Son of God–6that’s why He told His parents at the age of 12 “Don’t you know that I should be about my Father’s buisness”?

On the other hand I think if a person when Jesus was 12 asked Jesus if E = MC2 that Jesus would not have availed Himself of the Infite knowledge that He had as God because it would not have been in concert with God’s will!

Therefore I believe it altogether possible that Jesus LEARNED carpentry from Joseph because doing so was God’s will and availing Himself of His Infinite knowledge as God to already know carpentry and not learn it from Josephwas Not the will of God.

And I also believe that Jesus was always able to perfectly use or not use whatever divine attributesHe had to do God’s will.

Is my understanding correct?

 

[HailMary]

lol, I’m just gonna have to accept that I don’t understand this aren’t I? lol… I just don’t get how God would know this, but God as Jesus would not… I’ll just have to trust you on it and stop giving myself a headache

S

No, it’s a very good question and we will never FULLY understand the MYSTERY of the Incarnation.

Its not a question of whether God would know this, but God as Jesus would not, its a matter of His choice. Look, lets say you are a father of a child and your child wants to play basketball with you. Your kid is 9 years old. Are you going to play to the full extent of your abilities? Maybe you’ll play with one arm behind your back, or on your knees? Any of these would be analogous to Jesus Christ, in His human nature, choosing NOT to know everything (like the end of the world).

Remember when Jesus was in the garden of Gethsemane and an angel came and strengthened Him? Same idea, He choose to carry His cross through His human nature and suffer this way. Likewise, He let one of His created angels, aid Him in His time of need (and this is why its SO important to have a STRONG devotion to your Guardian Angel btw).

 

[Abira]

Remember when Jesus was in the garden of Gethsemane and an angel came and strengthened Him? Same idea, He choose to carry His cross through His human nature and suffer this way. Likewise, He let one of His created angels, aid Him in His time of need (and this is why its SO important to have a STRONG devotion to your Guardian Angel btw).

how do you know if you even have a guardian angel?

 

[Jesusstreet]

Proper English is to use the apostrophe without an additional “s”. JESUS’ name. This is true for most ancient names. Refer to “Elements of Style” by Strunk and White.

We are told in the first chapter of John that JESUS IS THE WORD MADE FLESH. That means that JESUS is the message from GOD. That all that JESUS spoke is from GOD OUR FATHER. GOD our FATHER is the GOD HEAD. JESUS is the LAMB OF GOD who was obedient unto death. Of course, JESUS is a person, eternally begotten of GOD OUR FATHER. To ask what JESUS knows is not necessarily relevant, because JESUS is ONE WITH THE FATHER. JESUS does what GOD OUR FATHER says.

We could suppose that JESUS knows all things always, or that JESUS has the perception and understanding of a man. But neither of these fully explains JESUS. Because JESUS is both GOD and man. We must see that JESUS being fully human is both intelligent enough to comprehend all things the most brilliant of men may comprehend. and JESUS being GOD can comprehend all things that GOD can comprehend, which is all things. This strikes us as a dichomoty, of course.

But then let us see that we are sheep. and JESUS is the GOOD SHEPARD. Now a Shepard given sufficient education could master differential calculus. But a Sheep could hardly do multiplication. On the same comparison, JESUS is GOD and can comprehend things which will baffle human beings. We must being with the idea that JESUS IS GOD. and that JESUS came among us as a man.

As an example we see JESUS teaching in the temple at age 12. JESUS was amazing the teachers there with his answers. So we know that JESUS had DIVINE answers to questions. We should also notice that JESUS didn’t go and build starships but taught in the temple. We might suppose that some endeavors of man is invented for the purpose of man, as theories which present themselves so that people may then apply these concepts to the natural world so as to build things. But Adam and Eve didn’t have this sort of understanding of the universe but had instead an understanding of those things around them. And when JESUS came into the world, HE spoke in parables to make mysteries of the KINGDOM accessible to even the uneducated. JESUS didn’t write a gospel himself as a man, but taught in the natural human ways. But instead had his servants, the Apostles write the Gospels. But JESUS was the Gospel, the WORD OF GOD.

We could theorize some here about the duality of the brain and the soul. However Descartes made some profound blunders in this, supposing the seat of the human soul was in a particular brain appendage. But we will see the Brain function has the dual existance with the less concrete mind, such that what the brain does is the mind. But that the mind itself is not confined to a physical existance because we have the SPIRIT of GOD within us, our soul, and will not die then, but in GRACE return to GOD.

JESUS having both a human and DIVINE nature, and a mission to fulfill in GOD, for the salvation of mankind, sought to help and heal and spread a message of LOVE, and consecrated the gift of the Gospel in HIS own blood for the LIFE OF THE WORLD. That JESUS is worthy to be THE LORD. However recognizing that JESUS the WORD is spoken by GOD OUR FATHER to whom all things are known, including when JESUS shall return, though no other knows of this day or hour. Who can comprehend GOD?

When you speak to JESUS you speak to GOD, and there is no soul capable of comprehending our AWESOME AND ALL-KNOWING GOD. We cannot confine JESUS to HIS human nature. But we must recognize GOD came among us as a man in the person of JESUS CHRIST. Therefore JESUS has all the knowledge and wisdom of GOD, and speaks to us that which we must know to inherit LIFE ETERNAL AND ABUNDANT.

 

[HailMary]

how do you know if you even have a guardian angel?

Luke 22:43
And to strengthen him an angel from heaven appeared to him.

also we read,
Mark 1:13
and he remained in the desert for forty days, tempted by Satan. He was among wild beasts, and the angels ministered to him.

"From infancy to death human life is surrounded by their (the angels) watchful care and intercession. Beside each believer stands an angel as protector and shepherd leading him to life. Already here on earth the Christian life shares by faith in the blessed company of angels and men united to God."

• from the Catechism of the Catholic Church; 336.

Its also a common tradition that Bishops, and certain people have more than one Guardian Angel, which would explain why Jesus probably had many.

 

[Abira]

"From infancy to death human life is surrounded by their (the angels) watchful care and intercession. Beside each believer stands an angel as protector and shepherd leading him to life. Already here on earth the Christian life shares by faith in the blessed company of angels and men united to God."

• from the Catechism of the Catholic Church; 336.

Its also a common tradition that Bishops, and certain people have more than one Guardian Angel, which would explain why Jesus probably had many.

it’s not something I’ve ever thought much about…I’ll have to add t to my list I’m afraid… of things that I need to know more about first lol

S

 

[HailMary]

how do you know if you even have a guardian angel?

Matthew 18:10
See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

 

[sojo]

Matthew 18:10
See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Thank you for this quote – it is a favorite I hadn’t thought of for a while. My son has Down syndrome, and when I had him enrolled in Catechism at 4 or 5 years old, they discussed angels. The teacher was trying to make a point and said, “now do you all have G. Angels??” “yesssss!!!” they all squealed. But can you see your angel??" No!!! they all squealed. Except for my son, who solemnly but firmly nodded his head, YES!!!

Now, one of the things with developmental delays is that these folks hate to disappoint,and try so hard to be agreeable, so they tend to say “yes” to everything. Did you kill those 5 people? My son will say “yes”. It is a real problem in the criminal justice system. So it had to take a lot for my son to buck the tide and say, “yes, I DO see my angels.”

The teacher, God love her, didn’t correct but just gave me the questioning eye. I told her, "yes, Sam has been able to see his Guardian Angels (that’s plural) since he was a baby. He insists he has two, and when asked, he would be able to point them out. Sometimes he can only spot one. He would seriously look all over before giving a sigh of relief and a big smile when he spotted one.

When he was a baby, we would see him babble to his angel, point and giggle and just couldn’t understand why we didn’t see the same thing. Yes, we tried the “dust mote” or “reflection” explanation, but at a certain point, we just had to accept that Sam had 2 angels, and he could see them and interact with them to some extent.

Now that Sam is 11, he doesn’t see his angels as often… though he says he still talks to them, just like he talks to God. He still insists he has 2, not 1. But now karate, horseback riding, Pokemon and baseball take up a lot of his interest. But every so often…

I never cared much about the concepts of angels before we had Sam,but he’s made a true believer out of me. My son has an extraordinary connection to God, uncanny at times, and I have to believe his angels are a part of that.

 

[Seeker_Of_Truth]

Proper English is to use the apostrophe without an additional “s”. JESUS’ name. This is true for most ancient names. Refer to “Elements of Style” by Strunk and White.

We are told in the first chapter of John that JESUS IS THE WORD MADE FLESH. That means that JESUS is the message from GOD. That all that JESUS spoke is from GOD OUR FATHER. GOD our FATHER is the GOD HEAD. JESUS is the LAMB OF GOD who was obedient unto death. Of course, JESUS is a person, eternally begotten of GOD OUR FATHER. To ask what JESUS knows is not necessarily relevant, because JESUS is ONE WITH THE FATHER. JESUS does what GOD OUR FATHER says.

We could suppose that JESUS knows all things always, or that JESUS has the perception and understanding of a man. But neither of these fully explains JESUS. Because JESUS is both GOD and man. We must see that JESUS being fully human is both intelligent enough to comprehend all things the most brilliant of men may comprehend. and JESUS being GOD can comprehend all things that GOD can comprehend, which is all things. This strikes us as a dichomoty, of course.

But then let us see that we are sheep. and JESUS is the GOOD SHEPARD. Now a Shepard given sufficient education could master differential calculus. But a Sheep could hardly do multiplication. On the same comparison, JESUS is GOD and can comprehend things which will baffle human beings. We must being with the idea that JESUS IS GOD. and that JESUS came among us as a man.

As an example we see JESUS teaching in the temple at age 12. JESUS was amazing the teachers there with his answers. So we know that JESUS had DIVINE answers to questions. We should also notice that JESUS didn’t go and build starships but taught in the temple. We might suppose that some endeavors of man is invented for the purpose of man, as theories which present themselves so that people may then apply these concepts to the natural world so as to build things. But Adam and Eve didn’t have this sort of understanding of the universe but had instead an understanding of those things around them. And when JESUS came into the world, HE spoke in parables to make mysteries of the KINGDOM accessible to even the uneducated. JESUS didn’t write a gospel himself as a man, but taught in the natural human ways. But instead had his servants, the Apostles write the Gospels. But JESUS was the Gospel, the WORD OF GOD.

We could theorize some here about the duality of the brain and the soul. However Descartes made some profound blunders in this, supposing the seat of the human soul was in a particular brain appendage. But we will see the Brain function has the dual existance with the less concrete mind, such that what the brain does is the mind. But that the mind itself is not confined to a physical existance because we have the SPIRIT of GOD within us, our soul, and will not die then, but in GRACE return to GOD.

JESUS having both a human and DIVINE nature, and a mission to fulfill in GOD, for the salvation of mankind, sought to help and heal and spread a message of LOVE, and consecrated the gift of the Gospel in HIS own blood for the LIFE OF THE WORLD. That JESUS is worthy to be THE LORD. However recognizing that JESUS the WORD is spoken by GOD OUR FATHER to whom all things are known, including when JESUS shall return, though no other knows of this day or hour. Who can comprehend GOD?

When you speak to JESUS you speak to GOD, and there is no soul capable of comprehending our AWESOME AND ALL-KNOWING GOD. We cannot confine JESUS to HIS human nature. But we must recognize GOD came among us as a man in the person of JESUS CHRIST. Therefore JESUS has all the knowledge and wisdom of GOD, and speaks to us that which we must know to inherit LIFE ETERNAL AND ABUNDANT.

Jesusstreet,

Thanks for the explanation. While I may not understand all of it (and probably never will), I believe I may be getting the gist of it, which is a good start, I assume!

I suppose the kicker about this one is that we are not just talking about one mystery–the Incarnate God-man–but also the Trinity itself–Father, Son, and Holy Spirit–and how they are connected (wisdom and understanding being one of the things). I haven’t been thinking about God the Father for this one, but it seems to be key that I do so…

The Trinity… Ah, well, I suppose it would be boring if we could figure out God completely!