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stanmaxkolbe
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Aw man two typo’s
I will explain more later but it’s really a bad thunderstorm that is hitting right now and I have to shut down the computer.
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I will explain more later but it’s really a bad thunderstorm that is hitting right now and I have to shut down the computer.
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BrianK2007
Guest
Wow, I guess no one else grew up watching the Moppet Show.
Pigs is Space
Pigs is Space
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Fidelia
Guest
I watched the Muppets. I remember that skit.
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stanmaxkolbe
Guest
Wow flashback man. I remember seeing that! I was usually deployed during that time but I remember seeing the reruns.Wow, I guess no one else grew up watching the Moppet Show.
Pigs is Space
I was in Germany living in the barracks and most guys had posters of women hanging on the wall. I had two posters; Kermit, and sexy Miss Piggy.
Oh no, now I’m thinking of ham!
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sullivan1213
Guest
A thousand apologies if I’m beating a dead horse or repeating others as I have not read every post in this thread.
I’m constantly amazed at christian people who get caught up in things like PETA. It’s almost understandable for people with different religious beliefs that put all animals on a par with humans (animals are people too). But, it seems to me that for a christian to belong to PETA or to be an animal activist in our society, which murders millions of its own children in utero every day, is a bit like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. No offense intended but, there are SO many more important things to spend time and energy on, why bother with this animal rights stuff?
If God didn’t intend for us to eat animals, they wouldn’t be made of meat.
I’m constantly amazed at christian people who get caught up in things like PETA. It’s almost understandable for people with different religious beliefs that put all animals on a par with humans (animals are people too). But, it seems to me that for a christian to belong to PETA or to be an animal activist in our society, which murders millions of its own children in utero every day, is a bit like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. No offense intended but, there are SO many more important things to spend time and energy on, why bother with this animal rights stuff?
If God didn’t intend for us to eat animals, they wouldn’t be made of meat.
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Fidelia
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We are made of “meat” too. “Meat” is simply the euphemism we assign to animal flesh we are about to eat. We have flesh just like them.A thousand apologies if I’m beating a dead horse or repeating others as I have not read every post in this thread.
I’m constantly amazed at christian people who get caught up in things like PETA. It’s almost understandable for people with different religious beliefs that put all animals on a par with humans (animals are people too). But, it seems to me that for a christian to belong to PETA or to be an animal activist in our society, which murders millions of its own children in utero every day, is a bit like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. No offense intended but, there are SO many more important things to spend time and energy on, why bother with this animal rights stuff?
If God didn’t intend for us to eat animals, they wouldn’t be made of meat.
Like I have said, no one is putting animals and humans completely equal in importance. But it is a fact that vegetarianism is a great help to humans as well as animals.
You mention abortion. How can you say you are pro-life though, is you cause sentient beings to be killed just so that you can consume their flesh as a luxury? Why are you only pro-human life? (No, the whole God’s image and dominion thing is not a good enough answer. why? because we are abusing those very things by what we do.)
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Moneo
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No one? Perhaps you mean that you don’t Fidelia, and if that’s so then that’s good news. But only the briefest of scans of PETA’s website makes it clear that the people who direct that organisation clearly do. And unlike myself (see my second post above), they would not be content with eliminating cruel factory farming techniques in favour of sustainable family farms, they are bent on the elimination of everything which they regard as “exploitation” of animals–eating them, using even wool for clothing, eating cheese and using milk, all because of some exaggerated notion of animal rights.
Perhaps. It is also a fact that humans are omnivores and that eating meat in and of itself is neither immoral, unethical, unnatural or intrinsically unhealthy for human beings, and so, I think, the key word here is FREEDOM. Bill wants to be a vegetarian? He’s free. Let him go right ahead and do it. Susan wants to be a vegan and eschew the use of all products derived from animals? Yep. She’s free too. But what if I want to eat a steak? I’m also free to do so and I cannot be accused of being cruel, immoral or unethical if I choose to do it. (And it certainly does not make me less Christian if I do it either.
)The PETA folks that I have known can’t quite take that step and allow others that kind of freedom though.
Heavy moral confusion here I’m afraid. I applaud your love for animals, but you just contradicted your claim that “no one is putting animals and humans completely equal in importance”. Because you are. A person can be against abortion and in favour of eating animals without any fear of contradiction. Because there is no moral equivalence between an abortion clinic and an abattoir. None. Unless you accept utilitarianism as the guiding principle in moral philosopy. But I don’t, and neither does the Church.
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Fidelia
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I was only offering information. If you are so narrowminded as not to even do a bit of research and see the truth in what I am pointing out, don’t blame me. I have no further to say. It isn’t worth explaining any further.
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Adonis33
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You’ve offered no “truth” - just your opinions - with sites that you agree with.
You speak of people having a narrow-minded, yet see being a vegan as the only “ethical” choice we as Catholics can make.
Speaking of being narrow-minded.
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Bennie_P
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Wasn’t Cain a vegan?
Gen 4:2-3 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:2-3 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
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Moneo
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Oh dear …
I’m sorry that you have been offended Fidelia, and I am sorry for my part in it, however big or small it may have been.
However, whether or not that comment was directed at me or at Porthos (great screen name, btw … are you a Frank Finlay Porthos, an Oliver Platt Porthos or a Gerard Depardieu Porthos?
), narrowminded is an unfortunate choice of words. :tsktsk:As for the research, here’s what I’ve got so far. The first internet link that you offered is to something called the “Christian Vegetarian Association.” Their FAQ is certainly worth reading, if only to see an example of biblical “proof-texting” taken to ridiculous extremes. I offer just one brief example here:
*Does the Bible support vegetarianism?
The Bible depicts vegetarianism as God’s ideal, and the diet conforms to the central biblical principle of stewardship. In Eden, all creatures lived peacefully, and God told both humans and animals to consume only plant foods (Gen. 1:29–31). Several prophecies, such as Isaiah 11:6–9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world, where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all coexist peacefully. Christian vegetarians, while acknowledging human sinfulness, believe we should strive toward the harmonious world Isaiah envisioned—to try to live in accordance with the prayer that Jesus taught us, “Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven” (Matt. 6:10).
*
Oh my goodness … the exegetical problems here boggle the mind. The first half of the first statement is just false, and while the second half of it may be a legitimate posture for an individual Christian to adopt within the bounds of his or her personal freedom, to imply that it is more in conformity with God’s will for all of creation in its preternatural state is a rather bold theologocial speculation that simply lacks any foundation at all in Christianity’s doctrinal, moral or theological traditions. Further, imagining that the prophecy in Isaiah 11:6-9 somehow refers to a future, vegetarian paradise is just silly.
Then, on the subject of ethics and our unethical behaviour toward animals, we have this recent controversy about the egg farm at Mepkin Abbey in South Carolina, generated by our friends at PETA.
Two problems though: first, the video which supposedly blew the lid off the evil monks’ heinous Nazi chicken concentration camps was very ethically obtained under false pretenses by a young man who posed as a retreatant at the monastery and filmed the operations in the hen house without the knowledge of the Benedictine monks who were his hosts. The second is that there are accusations that the video released by PETA was manipulated to augment the charge of cruel treatment
Seems not everyone in PETA is on the same page with regard to just what the “E” in their organisation’s name stands for.
The response of the brothers at Mepkin Abbey can be found here.
I repeat: vegetarianism is fine. It is a legitimate personal choice and Christians who love animals are free to practice it. And I said in an earlier post that* I agree* that factory farming is cruel and prefer smaller, more sustainable family farms run according to traditional models. But one is not morally flawed or unethical if he chooses to eat meat and any suggestion that it compromises one’s Christian commitment or witness is flatly false.
So? I can easily deal with vegetarians. Diets are a personal thing.
However, vegetarians seems to have the bad attitude against meat-eaters, and that I don’t like. Leave us alone.
Offended? I don’t care. She had it coming.
Star Trek: Enterprise Porthos. The Beagle.However, whether or not that comment was directed at me or at Porthos (great screen name, btw … are you a Frank Finlay Porthos, an Oliver Platt Porthos or a Gerard Depardieu Porthos?
Narrowminded indeed. All I asked was leave us alone. A “narrowminded” individual would have blasted veganism the way they do meat-eaters. But none of us did such things. They want to abstain from meat, fine, well and good.
But again, leave us meat-eaters alone.
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Wisdom
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Jesus probably ate very little meat for sure he ate no pigs, and only the rich ate cows and chickens which weren’t a staple for the poor and Jesus seemed to come from the stock as a carpenter.He probaby ate a lot of fish though he hung around fisherman for one and that was a staple for Galileans and on rare occasions he probably ate lamb but usually for only celebrations and religious observnaces. Jesus ate very little meat comared to the average american but he probably ate a lot of fish and some lamb which/ All of this means absolutely nothing for the agenda of PETA but is interesting anyway.
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Moneo
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Ahhh … a Star Trek Porthos. I don’t know why that one never occurred to me even though I have the DVD set sitting on the shelf behind me!
My head went directly to the Three Musketeers (one of my all-time favourite novels) and the three most recent film versions!I understand what you’re saying. I just thought that the “narrowminded” comment may have been directed at me. She may have felt that my “Lea & Perrins” and “animals are yummy” jokes were in poor taste and, let’s face it, these kinds of discussions tend to get passionate. People sometimes take offense more readily here than they might in person.
Oh well …
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