Jesus and God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter seetee8
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

seetee8

Guest
Hi everyone,

I just have a few questions. The first is how do we know that Jesus is God? For example I understand he was a great prophet and up until now I have simply accepted the belief in the Trinity.

Secondly, as Catholics we do not take stories and parables from the old testament literally. For example Adam and Eve. However do we believe that people such as Noah and Elijah in the Old Testament were real? Is it simply the Genesis books that are not ‘literally true’ or the whole Old Testament.

Thirdly, Muslims believe the Koran was literally the word of God. As Catholics how do we know that some parts of the bible in the New Testament were not exaggerated? How was the Bible made and how do we know it is the word of God?

Serious answers only please.
 
It is all about faith. Without faith there is no belief. We cannot prove anything, “Blessed are those who have not seen, but still believe”. However, if you believe in the words of Christ, He did say that those who know him, know the Father, and those that have seen him have seen the Father.

The Bible is a collection of letters and books that were writted by different men throughout the ages. All of these writing are inspired by God. Here is where that faith thing comes into play again. If you do not believe that God can inspire men to write what He wants them to write, then you do not believe that the Bible is the word of God. When I search my heart and soul I know that God exists and that Jesus Christ is true God and true man, it really is that simple for me. With Jesus there is both divinity and humanity as with the Bible, the divinity of Gods inspiration and the humanity of the writers.

As for which books and stories of the Bible to take literally, If indeed it is the word of God, I would suggest that we study the word and find the lessons that the Father intends us to find. Then we will be doing the will of God.

May the Good Lord Bless You and Keep You and May You Have a Good and Holy Lent.

NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!
 
Hi everyone,

I just have a few questions. The first is how do we know that Jesus is God? For example I understand he was a great prophet and up until now I have simply accepted the belief in the Trinity.

Mal: Well - to make a long story short - because he said he was. If you say he was a great “Prophet” then you have to accept what that Prophet said , do you not? No other Prophet in any other major religion ever claimed to be the Son of GOD and then performed the stupendous public miracles culminating in the resurrection itself. Why did every Apostle except St John willingly sacrifice their lives if he wasnt. What was the upside? Why did the Church suffer so many martyrdoms for the 300 years prior to Constantine if Jesus wasnt who he claimed to be? What was the upside?

Secondly, as Catholics we do not take stories and parables from the old testament literally. For example Adam and Eve. However do we believe that people such as Noah and Elijah in the Old Testament were real? Is it simply the Genesis books that are not ‘literally true’ or the whole Old Testament.

Mal: I do. Maybe not in the way literature is read - but in the Spiritual context and exegesis of the Church. Like for example the Dogma of Original Sin or the Immaculate Conception both of which come directly from the first three Chapters of Genesis. . Now many people today want to argue about Evolution or how can GOD create everything in 6 24 hour days etc. But they miss the entire point. Perhaps if you read

First Corinthians

1:17. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of speech, lest the cross of Christ should be made void.

1:18. For the word of the cross, to them indeed that perish, is foolishness: but to them that are saved, that is, to us, it is the power of God.

1:19. For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise: and the prudence of the prudent I will reject.

1:20. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1:21. For, seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world, by wisdom, knew not God, it pleased God, by the foolishness of our preaching, to save them that believe.

1:22. For both the Jews require signs: and the Greeks seek after wisdom.

1:23. But we preach Christ crucified: unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness:

1:24. But unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God.

1:25. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men: and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

The foolishness, etc… That is to say, what appears foolish to the world in the ways of God, is indeed most wise; and what appears weak is indeed above all the strength and comprehension of man.

1:26. For see your vocation, brethren, that there are not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble.

1:27. But the foolish things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the wise: and the weak things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the strong.
 
Thirdly, Muslims believe the Koran was literally the word of God. As Catholics how do we know that some parts of the bible in the New Testament were not exaggerated? How was the Bible made and how do we know it is the word of God?

Mal: The Word of GOD is written not by Men - but by GOD. Thus the Word of GOD is only relevant if the person studying the Word of GOD is doing so in a Spiritual manner. One of the biggest mistakes people make is to assume Holy Scripture is merely just another book penned by Men and to approach its exegesis accordingly. Certainly if you read it that way - you will get that out of it. But Holy Mother the Church has been given to know what Holy Scripture is in an entirely different manner. Example.

The Holy Gospel According to St John.

3:1. And there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.

3:2. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him: Rabbi, we know that thou art come a teacher from God; for no man can do these signs which thou dost, unless God be with him.

3:3. Jesus answered and said to him: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

3:4. Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born again?

3:5. Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Unless a man be born again, etc… By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism; and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words. Matt. 28. 19.

3:6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3:7. Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again.

3:8. The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth. So is every one that is born of the Spirit.

3:9. Nicodemus answered and said to him: How can these things be done?

3:10. Jesus answered and said to him: Art thou a master in Israel, and knowest not these things?

3:11. Amen, amen, I say to thee that we speak what we know and we testify what we have seen: and you receive not our testimony.

3:12. If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not: how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things?

3:13. And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.

3:14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up:

3:15. That whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Now reread 3:12.

Serious answers only please.

And we havent even gotten to scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html
 
seetee8 said:
I just have a few questions. The first is how do we know that Jesus is God? For example I understand he was a great prophet and up until now I have simply accepted the belief in the Trinity.
Click to expand...
Because he PROVED His Divinity by miracles and raising Himself from the dead. He works miracles everyday - even until this day. One of the major post-Biblical times miracle ever recorded was the miracle of the sun at Fatima where over 70,000 people ,consisting of both believers and unbelievers, witnessed it.
seetee8 said:
Secondly, as Catholics we do not take stories and parables from the old testament literally. For example Adam and Eve. However do we believe that people such as Noah and Elijah in the Old Testament were real? Is it simply the Genesis books that are not ‘literally true’ or the whole Old Testament.
Click to expand...
As Catholics we certainly do take the events in the OT as literal truths although some would like more intellectual latitude in order to reconcile modern, and unproven, scientific theories with the Bible. But regardless we certainly do take as literal the stories of Adam and Eve, the Exodus account etc. as real historical people and events.
seetee8 said:
Thirdly, Muslims believe the Koran was literally the word of God. As Catholics how do we know that some parts of the bible in the New Testament were not exaggerated? How was the Bible made and how do we know it is the word of God?

Serious answers only please.
Click to expand...
Because the Bible was written over the course of centuries using different human instruments (God is the author) and little fragments from each all came together and became clear with the Incarnation and fulfilled the Biblical prophecies (such as the time and manner of Christ’s birth - His works, death and resurrection). No other religion can claim that degree of authenticity alone which doesn’t even consider the claims of Christ Himself and the miracles He worked to prove it.
 
Jesus Christ is the Son of God according to the Saints and Fathers of the Orthodox Tradition.
 
seetee8 said:
Hi everyone,

I just have a few questions. The first is how do we know that Jesus is God? For example I understand he was a great prophet and up until now I have simply accepted the belief in the Trinity.

Secondly, as Catholics we do not take stories and parables from the old testament literally. For example Adam and Eve. However do we believe that people such as Noah and Elijah in the Old Testament were real? Is it simply the Genesis books that are not ‘literally true’ or the whole Old Testament.

Thirdly, Muslims believe the Koran was literally the word of God. As Catholics how do we know that some parts of the bible in the New Testament were not exaggerated? How was the Bible made and how do we know it is the word of God?

Serious answers only please.
Click to expand...
We believe Jesus is God. Whether that equates to “knowing” is up to you.

Catholics do read Scripture literally, in one sense, in that the literal sense of Scripture is essential. We do not read Scripture as fundamentalists do, in a literalistic sense. Genesis chapters 1-11 are typically noted as “pre-history” and contain what Scripture scholars identify as mythological elements.

Regarding the Bible and the New Testament, we rely on the unbroken witness and teaching of the apostolic Church, regardless of “exaggerations” or other literary elements that may be present. The unbroken apostolic witness is what assures us that the canon of the New Testament is the word of God, inspired and true as the Catechism teaches (see para 101-141).
 
Thank you all for your responses! It is very much appreciated. Whilst initially I wanted to reply to each response I realised this thread would never end if I picked at little things. Your answers have helped me a lot though so thank you!
 
seetee8 said:
Hi everyone,

I just have a few questions. The first is how do we know that Jesus is God? For example I understand he was a great prophet and up until now I have simply accepted the belief in the Trinity.

Because He said He was, and He resurrected from the dead. Can you do that?

Secondly, as Catholics we do not take stories and parables from the old testament literally. For example Adam and Eve. However do we believe that people such as Noah and Elijah in the Old Testament were real? Is it simply the Genesis books that are not ‘literally true’ or the whole Old Testament.

I have no problem believing in an original ancestor for the human race. You need to read the book “The Seven Daughters of Eve” by Brian Sykes who is a geneticist. The fact is, we don’t know the original names of either Adam or Eve, but that doesn’t mean that they were not real. As far as Noah goes, the evidence is overwhelming with regard to geological floods after the last Ice Age. It is not out of the norm to believe that something like the story of Noah could have occurred, maybe on a lesser scale, but nevertheless happened.
All Jews believed that Elijah existed as one of their prophets. We should too. Did he ascend into the sky by celestial chariots? Probably not, but something happened there.

Thirdly, Muslims believe the Koran was literally the word of God. As Catholics how do we know that some parts of the bible in the New Testament were not exaggerated? How was the Bible made and how do we know it is the word of God?

Because most of the New Testament is based on eyewitness accounts.
The Koran was probably either dictated by Mohammad to a scribe (there is some historical evidence that the final copy of the Koran had been edited by a group of imams) or was written through an occult process called “automatic writing.” The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ is one such endeavor.
Click to expand...
 
I can give you a one word answer that means a lot: "FAITH." We believe that Jesus is God because He said so. Plus, is Adam wasn’t real, why are we here? Obviously, Elijah was real because he he said what would happen when the Messiah came, and it happened.
~His Princess
 
I just have a few questions. The first is how do we know that Jesus is God? For example I understand he was a great prophet and up until now I have simply accepted the belief in the Trinity.

I will start by warning you that I am only your average Joe. I have never attended Seminary nor have I studied Theology in a classroom environment. In a nutshell, my answer to your questions will be in layman’s terms quite literally. I welcome comments from anyone who can elaborate or perhaps correct me if I make any misrepresentations.

Now to get started. Here’s How I understand it:

The first part of my answer to your first query is simply this: “Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum, et vivificantem: qui ex Patre Filioque procedit.” taken from the Nicene Creed, which Catholics are obliged to accept. The Holy Ghost is God in his spiritual form. This part of the mystery of the Holy Trinity is easy to accept because it conforms to our simple understanding of things as humans. “God the Son”, being the second person of the Holy Trinity is a little more difficult to comprehend since God is also at the same time the “Father”. The Father and the Son are perceived as being two separate physical beings rather than one physical and one spiritual. But to go back to the Nicene Creed which states that the Holy Spirit “Proceeds from the Father and the Son” It is the spiritual form of God and he proceeds from BOTH. I cannot claim that your soul would proceed from my body nor could my soul from yours. A spirit proceeds from its host, in this case The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father AND the Son, indicating that both are, indeed, God.

I hope I haven’t lost you yet. I’m trying to keep it short but there’s a lot to explain.

The second point I would like to make here has been briefly mentioned already. That point is that Jesus himself has said so. A classic example is John 8:58 and 59, " Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple." This is significant for several reasons. One, why did they take up stones to cast at him? The answer is simple. He had just, at least in their minds, committed blasphemy. How? For that you have to dig into the old testament. “God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you.” Exodus 3:14. The words “I AM” are translated as Yahweh, which is the Hebrew word for God. Jesus, by saying “I AM” pretty much came right out and claimed to be God himself. The Jews interpereted what he said correctly, but they were wrong in thinking he blasphemed since he told the truth.

The third point here is much easier to elaborate on. Isaias 7:14 *“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel” * Emmanuel translates literally into the words “God with us”.

Others have covered this topic quite well so we’ll move on.
 
***Secondly, as Catholics we do not take stories and parables from the old testament literally. For example Adam and Eve. However do we believe that people such as Noah and Elijah in the Old Testament were real? Is it simply the Genesis books that are not ‘literally true’ or the whole Old Testament. ***

As to whether or not to interpret the Old Testament literally this one has been answered pretty well so far. In Genesis, keep in mind that the author was writing so that a people much more primitive (at least intellectually) than us could understand it. In the account of creation in Genesis the moon and sun were not made until the 4th day. We measure a day by the rising and setting of the sun, or in a full 24 hour period if you prefer. If there was no sun for the first 3 days, then there was no rising or setting either. The whole idea here of using “days” for creation was to make it so that people could understand it. God is not constrained by time at all. My personal opinion is that for God, there is no such thing as a “day”, except for the one He created, and since He created it, He is not constrained by it. Even the story of Noah can be explained in this way. The entire earth did not need to be flooded, just the known inhabited area. It could easily have been a local flood which killed off all living creatures in that specific area. In fact, I beleive this to be the most likely scenario. As to the rest of the Old Testament, pretty much from Exodus on can be interpreted quite literally.

***Thirdly, Muslims believe the Koran was literally the word of God. As Catholics how do we know that some parts of the bible in the New Testament were not exaggerated? How was the Bible made and how do we know it is the word of God? ***

For your last question let’s start with the Old Testament. It is a fact that both Christians and Jews at the time of Christ accepted these as the inspired word of God. These two religions did not exactly get along very nicely at the time and for these books to have survived to this day is in itself a testament to their authenticity. The New Testament can be looked at in two ways. Firstly as strictly historical documents and secondly as the inspired word of God. (I do not intent to downplay the importance of their inspiration, I merely intend to focus first on the historical aspect) The fact that the authors were Jews is evident through their knowledge of the Hebrew language. Also, the fact that they were written before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 a.d. is evident because Palestine is described as it was before this event. Had their been alterations, especially to the Gospels, AFTER the fall of Jerusalem, then why isn’t the fall of Jerusalem mentioned? It certainly would have been considering that it would have confirmed the prophecy of Jesus pertaining to that event (Matt. Ch. 24, Mark Ch. 13). Also, just looking at the history of man in general we can make an argument that they have not been altered. Up until the invention of the printing press in the mid 1400’s all copies of the Bible had to be done by hand. Any alterations would have easily been detected simply by comparing copies and the Church has always been very vigilant in protecting the Bible. Unfortunatley, after the Reformation, many Bibles have been mass produced that have gross alterations in them which is why you need to use only Bibles approved by the Catholic Church. Alterations to the Catholic Bible could have easily been pointed out by the Church’s many enemies and used against her claims that the Bible she posesses is the true copy. To my knowledge no evidence has ever been presented which can prove this.

Now to the inspired part. The Muslims claim that the Koran is the direct inspired word of God. Do you take their word for it? It was written by their prophet Muhammed. They offer no other evidence to support their claim. The Bible was written by many authors. The exact number is not really known since some books are believed to be possibly “co-authored”. The fact that all of these writings coincide so well with each other is a truly amazing feat. To have a book this in depth and with so many authors all come together with no contradictions would be next to impossible. This fact alone speaks volumes in favor of the Bible being inspired.
 

This is a dificult concept to explain to a nonbeliever. For example, Matthew 26:42:
He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”. How do you explain that if Jesus is God, then why does He pray to God as we see here? Also, was the will of the Father the same as the will of the Son? Or does One God have two different wills?​

Matthew 26:39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”​

Mark 14:36 And He was saying, “Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.”​

Luke 22:42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”
 
sidbrown said:

This is a dificult concept to explain to a nonbeliever. For example, Matthew 26:42:
He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”. How do you explain that if Jesus is God, then why does He pray to God as we see here? Also, was the will of the Father the same as the will of the Son? Or does One God have two different wills?​

Matthew 26:39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”​

Mark 14:36 And He was saying, “Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.”​

Luke 22:42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”
Click to expand...
Not if you except the fact that Jesus was TRUE GOD and TRUE Man!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top