Jesus and Mary the only "physical things" in Heaven?

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Jesus ascended into heaven.
Mary was assumed into heaven.


Heaven is a spiritual place comprising of God the Father who is spirit, God the Holy Spirit, who is spirit, and Jesus–who is spirit and has a physical body.

Heaven consists of angels and saints, all of whom are spirit.

So Jesus and Mary are the only ones with a “physical presence” in Heaven?

I don’t understand… :confused:
 
Well, let’s see.

I seem to remember others who were physically assumed into heaven as well.

Elijah, Enoch, & Moses are three that come to mind.

Chris
 
First to respond to the responder, Elias did not die, nor did Enoc.
They await in Paradise to put order at the End of the World and then die, killed by the Antichrist.

Second, yes, they as persons.

But as for the other souls, there things that are physical but that the souls are able to joy from them. Think of the following principle:
Hell is full of souls, yet there is a fire that burns them. Fire can only burn matter, but God has created a fire that burn them.
In Heaven there is also fire, but it does not burn, but is beautiful.

Remember when the ember was going to be put to the prophet’s lips? Why didn’t it burn him? It was part of the firey heaven. Heaven is very big. Theologans say it is unmeasurable as Our Lady’s virtue is unmeasurable. It has many things, splendorous things. It is physical as well.
 
Well, let’s see.

I seem to remember others who were physically assumed into heaven as well.

Elijah, Enoch, & Moses are three that come to mind.

Chris
I probably have heard that, but I currently didn’t know that!
 
First to respond to the responder, Elias did not die, nor did Enoc.
They await in Paradise to put order at the End of the World and then die, killed by the Antichrist.

Second, yes, they as persons.

But as for the other souls, there things that are physical but that the souls are able to joy from them. Think of the following principle:
Hell is full of souls, yet there is a fire that burns them. Fire can only burn matter, but God has created a fire that burn them.
In Heaven there is also fire, but it does not burn, but is beautiful.

Remember when the ember was going to be put to the prophet’s lips? Why didn’t it burn him? It was part of the firey heaven. Heaven is very big. Theologans say it is unmeasurable as Our Lady’s virtue is unmeasurable. It has many things, splendorous things. It is physical as well.
Okay, Thanks.
 
Well, let’s see.

I seem to remember others who were physically assumed into heaven as well.

Elijah, Enoch, & Moses are three that come to mind.

Chris
I remember that Elijah was taken up to heaven in a fiery chariot so we can assume he is bodily present in heaven; and that Enoch walked with God and was never heard of again so we can assume the same for him… Moses died and was buried without entering the Promised Land, but was with Elijah and Jesus at the Transfiguration so he presents a problem to me. Anyone have a good answer?
 
Jesus ascended into heaven.
Mary was assumed into heaven.


Heaven is a spiritual place comprising of God the Father who is spirit, God the Holy Spirit, who is spirit, and Jesus–who is spirit and has a physical body.

Heaven consists of angels and saints, all of whom are spirit.

So Jesus and Mary are the only ones with a “physical presence” in Heaven?

I don’t understand… :confused:
Jesus and Mary are the only ones in Heaven with resurrected bodies: Jesus is resurrected as the God-Man and Mary, as a creature, has a share in the resurrection of the dead (which is eseentially a share in Jesus’ resurrection, since He is “the resurrection and the life”) by virtue of her glorious assumption. So Mary is the only resurrected creature in all of Heaven and Earth, because she has a share in the mystery of the resurrection of Jesus, who is the Risen One.

But they are not the only ones who have bodies in Heaven. Elijah the Prophet also has a body in Heaven, and I think Esnah (I can’t remember his name!) dose too. I know not if their bodies are glorified like Mary’s, since they were assumed into Heaven as well: That’s a question for our Jewish brethern to answer! 🙂
 
Heaven is a spiritual place
source or proof? Heaven would have to exist outside of our universe, which means it is not bound by the same laws of physics or dimensions that ours is (such as time). However, that does not mean it equates to SOLELY an existance based in spirit. In fact, we know that we will ALL eventually be reunited with our bodies in heaven
comprising of God the Father who is spirit,
source or proof? No one has seen or understood the true nature of God, especially God the Father. I don’t think we can conclusively say that God the father is PURELY Spirit. For example, He manifested VERY physically as a burning bush for Moses.
Heaven consists of angels and saints, all of whom are spirit.
source or proof? There is nothing indicating that an angel is ONLY spirit. Keep in mind that the term supernatural or celestial does NOT equate “solely spiritual existance”
 
source or proof? Heaven would have to exist outside of our universe, which means it is not bound by the same laws of physics or dimensions that ours is (such as time). However, that does not mean it equates to SOLELY an existance based in spirit. In fact, we know that we will ALL eventually be reunited with our bodies in heaven

source or proof? No one has seen or understood the true nature of God, especially God the Father. I don’t think we can conclusively say that God the father is PURELY Spirit. For example, He manifested VERY physically as a burning bush for Moses.

source or proof? There is nothing indicating that an angel is ONLY spirit. Keep in mind that the term supernatural or celestial does NOT equate “solely spiritual existance”
Matter has generally been conceived as in one sense or another the limitation of spirit. Hence, finite spirits were thought to require a body as a principle of individuation and limitation; only God, the Infinite Spirit, was free from all admixture of matter. Thus, when we find the angels described as asomatoi or auloi, in the writings of the Fathers, this properly means only that the angels do not possess a gross, fleshly body; it does not at all imply a nature absolutely immaterial. Such Scripture expressions as “bread of angels”, “they shall shine as the angels”, as well as the apparitions of these heavenly beings, were adduced as proofs of their corporeality.

-New Advent
 
Moses died and was buried without entering the Promised Land, but was with Elijah and Jesus at the Transfiguration so he presents a problem to me. Anyone have a good answer?
Check out Jude verse 9. It is vague, but interesting in light of the transfiguration.
 
Jesus ascended into heaven.
Mary was assumed into heaven.


Heaven is a spiritual place comprising of God the Father who is spirit, God the Holy Spirit, who is spirit, and Jesus–who is spirit and has a physical body.

Heaven consists of angels and saints, all of whom are spirit.

So Jesus and Mary are the only ones with a “physical presence” in Heaven?

I don’t understand… :confused:

When you say “physical”, do you mean “occupying a position in space” 🙂 ?​

The physis of a thing is its nature - no matter what the thing is: God or creatures, angel, dust, stones, atoms, men. God is “physically” present in the soul or in a stone, not by occupying space, but according to His physis, & according to the physis of the thing in which He is present: He is present in a demon in one way, in a Saint in another, in a rock in another, in the Church in another, in the Sacraments in others; & so on.

IMHO, we (= people in general) tend to identify real things with things we can know physically - that is, from the senses & their artificial extensions (such as microscopes, Petri dishes, etc). An elephant is very “physical” in that sense: if it were present in a room, we would know :D.

C.S.Lewis suggested Saints are solid, “Big People” - we, by contrast are like mist. A spirit is solid & massive: it is we who lack solidity. There is Biblical foundation for this: because God’s Glory is His kabodh in Hebrew - His wealth, richness, heaviness; & there is St. Paul:
  • 2Cr 4:14 knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.
  • 2Cr 4:15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
  • 2Cr 4:16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed every day.
  • 2Cr 4:17 For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,
  • 2Cr 4:18 because we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen; for the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
  • 2Cr 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
  • 2Cr 5:2 Here indeed we groan, and long to put on our heavenly dwelling,
  • 2Cr 5:3 so that by putting it on we may not be found naked.
  • 2Cr 5:4 For while we are still in this tent, we sigh with anxiety; not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
  • 2Cr 5:5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
  • 2Cr 5:6 So we are always of good courage; we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord,
  • 2Cr 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.
    my emphasis
2 Corinthians 4.18 & the following words go some way to unfold what said in 2 Cor. 4.17. But see the whole thing, from chapter 4 to chapter 5

Why do we not see God in this life ? Maybe we would be squashed flat 🤷 FWIW - & this idea may be worth nothing - perhaps the idea of God as heavy can give us a clue to the intercession of the Saints: because, if they are bigger & more massive than the world, perhaps they are what we would call giants :). If they are so big that the world is but a pinhead to them, they have no need to be omnisicient. Any more than we do, to see a small thing like a pinhead.
It is at least suggestive that gods in antiquity are often represented as of superhuman size.

Is the humility of God shown by His becoming that tiny thing, an infant ? Maybe 🤷 C.S.Lewis has a wonderful idea about the Incarnation: he points out, in “The Silver Chair”, that What was in the stable at Bethlehem was greater than what was outside it: as Jesus was in Mary. It gets odder: Mary then contained the God “Whom the heaven of heavens cannot contain” - & He contains all creation: which includes her. So she is in Him, Who was in in her - which has a bearing on her Assumption. The Incarnation, the Ascension, & the Assumption all do very odd things to space.

That is just my speculation :o - take it or leave it 😉
 
source or proof? Heaven would have to exist outside of our universe, which means it is not bound by the same laws of physics or dimensions that ours is (such as time). However, that does not mean it equates to SOLELY an existance based in spirit. In fact, we know that we will ALL eventually be reunited with our bodies in heaven

source or proof? No one has seen or understood the true nature of God, especially God the Father. I don’t think we can conclusively say that God the father is PURELY Spirit. For example, He manifested VERY physically as a burning bush for Moses.

source or proof? There is nothing indicating that an angel is ONLY spirit. Keep in mind that the term supernatural or celestial does NOT equate “solely spiritual existance”

However: angels are beings of pure spirit - this is dogma: it was defined in 1215. They are not material, but they are composite: though not composed of matter; they metaphysically composite - unlike God, Who is simple (= free of all composition). And they are creatures, like us - unlike God. Beause God is non-composite, He is Infinite & all that Omni-stuff: which is impossible to a composite being, because they are all incompletely actualised; their being =//= their activity. In God, the two are identical 🙂

BTW - God is the only supernatural substance: angels are praeternatural, & men are natural. IOW, horror films have precious little to do with the supernatural: but then, the publicists who call them that are probably not metaphysicians 😉

“God is Spirit” (John 4.24) - not “has” one. As for the Theophanies, such as that to Moses, they are of different kinds: He is also revealed in or by wind - something quite different from fire. Neither reveals His metaphysical Nature; either may reveal His nature as the God Who has dealings with men. God is not man at all - but to us, who ar men, He has made Himself known through the man Jesus: His revelation of Himself is adapted to us 😃
 
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