Jesus broke a commandment by not marrying

  • Thread starter Thread starter tractarian
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tractarian

Guest
There’s like a gajillion apologetics threads dealing with objections to Catholicism from Protestants and atheists, so i thought i’d contribute something different:

Nearly every Jewish apologetic website i’ve seen mentions that one of the reasons Jesus could not be the Jewish Messiah is that he broke one of the Torah precepts. The Jewish interpretation of Genesis 1:28 is that it is a commandment for every Jew (every human being, in fact) to get married and have children; in the traditional list of 613 mitzvot (commandments), this mitzvah often appears as #1.

It is apparent that prior to the founding of the Church, all of the Mosaic laws were still binding upon Jews, including Jesus (Matt 23:3).

Even more to the point, the New Testament says several times that Jesus was sinless (I John 3:5, I Pet 2:22, etc). Yet he never married. Even though that mitzvah is nolonger binding upon us Christians, at the very least Jesus was guilty of the sin of disobedience since he was still under the Mosaic Law.

It really does matter whether Jesus was the Messiah promised to Israel, because if he was not, he loses all connection with the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. The New Testament could be 100% true, Ressurection, Divinity and everything, and Jesus would be no more than any other ancient pagan tale of a god (not the God) incarnating as a human. Like Vishnu or Osiris. To be our Savior, Jesus needs to be the Jewish Messiah first.

And i have just made a case against that, for your apologetic enjoyment.😃
(This is not a thread about Mary Magdalene, the DaVinci Code, or anything like that. It takes it a priori that Jesus was lifelong single man.)
 
Isaac was forty years old when he took to wife Rebekah, the daughter of Bethuel the Aramean of Paddan-aram, the sister of Laban the Aramean. (Gen 25:20)

From the story of twins Esau and Jacob in Genesis, it would appear that Esau married first when he was forty years old (Gen 26:34). When Esau’s Hittite wives made life bitter for Isaac and Rebekah, they insisted that Jacob not marry a Canaanite woman but marry one of the daughters of Jacob’s uncle, Laban. When Jacob went to Laban, Laban made Jacob work for him for seven years before he would let him marry one of his daughters. So it would appear that Jacob was **at least forty-seven years **old before he first married.

Jesus died when he was about thirty-three years old.

St. Paul described himself in Acts 22:3 saying, “I am a Jew, born at Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, educated according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as you all are this day.” However, in 1 Cor 7:8 he says, “To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.” Therefore it would appear that St. Paul was single yet an observant Jew which would mean the idea that a Jewish man absolutely must marry appears to be a recent (i.e., post New Testament era) Jewish tradition.
 
Well, since Jesus is God, and God is the issuer of commandments, do you really think that Jesus would violate His own commandment? And since He is the issuer of commandments, He stands above them, i.e., they are non-binding upon Him, as He is the source of their authority. This looks almost like a DeVinci Code troll.
 
40.png
Apologia100:
Well, since Jesus is God, and God is the issuer of commandments, do you really think that Jesus would violate His own commandment? And since He is the issuer of commandments, He stands above them, i.e., they are non-binding upon Him, as He is the source of their authority. This looks almost like a DeVinci Code troll.
Click to expand...
not a great argument. you can’t say, “i prove that He is God because He says He is and is therefore able to break His own commands.” the better argument lies in the post above in that just because he wasn’t married by 33, it doesn’t mean that he broke a commandment. also, not all jewish people view that as a commandment.
 
The biblical statements by Todd say more to me than that of the argument against. Is this a bash against Christ? I am trying to figure that out. Why would someone start a thread arguing against Christ’s position as our Savior and Messiah? Just wondering.:confused:
 
The Jews, like many who dont want to look at things with “spiritual eyes” fail to see that Jesus did NOT violate that law…he is the fullfillment of ALL…he DID get married…MYSTICALLY

The church is the BRIDE OF CHRIST, and he is the BRIDEGROOM…Nuns are also considered to be BRIDES of CHIRST…uh oh…Jesus has MORE THAN ONE BRIDE??? :eek: …some that have had mystical revelations from Christ have even been given invisible (except to them) WEDDING BANNS from Jesus…
 
I have some thoughts on this…

Was Jesus an Essene(sp)? Was He a Nazarite? If so, then celibacy was required. Sampson was a Nazarite, John the Baptist was a Nazarite? What about the prophet Elijah ?..🙂
 
40.png
firemnbob:
The biblical statements by Todd say more to me than that of the argument against. Is this a bash against Christ? I am trying to figure that out. Why would someone start a thread arguing against Christ’s position as our Savior and Messiah? Just wondering.:confused:
Click to expand...
It sounded to me like Tractarian was only playing “devil’s advocate” in order to hear some arguments he/she could use against Jewish apologists, or perhaps to test the mettle of would be Christian apologists here.
 
40.png
Annunciata:
I have some thoughts on this…

Was Jesus an Essene(sp)? Was He a Nazarite? If so, then celibacy was required. Sampson was a Nazarite, John the Baptist was a Nazarite? What about the prophet Elijah ?..🙂
Click to expand...
Mea Culpa… I guess I have been watching to much of “The Mysteries of the Bible”…(Quote from) New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia regarding the Essenes.
“The attitude of Jesus and his disciples is altogether anti-Essenic” (Jewish Encyc.). The strict silence about any Messias is due partly perhaps to the secrecy of the Essenes and mainly no doubt to His rejection by their chronicler, Josephus. In fine, our present knowledge of the Essenes is slight and not at all trustworthy, as its sources as scanty, coloured, and unreliable.
Click to expand...
:o Annunciata

p.s.
I know this is a non-Catholic Site…but do you think it has any merits? Nazarite Priesthood:hmmm:
 
Faithful 2 Rome makes a great argument about Christ having been mystically married. In regards to firemnbob’s question- this is a place where people are supposed to ask tough questions.

On the question at hand, while I think Christ never would have violated a commandment, he certainly would not have been bound by improper interpretations of a commandment, such as not healing people on the Sabbath. If Jewish thinkers came upon the idea that all men should be married, even before Christ’s time (and I’m not so sure they did), the Saviour would be free to disregard it as a Law of Man.
 
Note that Saint Paul claims to have been of the strictest, most nit-pickingly obedient of the Pharisees. Yet he was unmarried, and urged others to remain unmarried.

Jesus might have bent a Law, e.g. curing on the Sabbath, but Saul never.
 
I ❤️ the responses this thread has gotten! To answer a question some people had, no i am not Christ-bashing. I’m not even Jewish. I consider myself an amateur Catholic apologist, and this is one argument against Christianity which i myself have never been able to answer to satisfactorily.

In my understanding, Paul’s observance of the Torah was entirely voluntary, because he was just a free from the Law as any other Christian by that point. In some of his letters he mentioned how observant a Pharisee he was, in others he pointed out Gentile customs he had adopted, so i don’t know if we can be sure whether he considered the obligation to marry as a mitzvah or not.

The point about the age when Biblical guys have married is an excellent one, and the bit about Christ truly being married–to the Church–just made me slap my forehead and smile.🙂 Until now, i was afraid that i’d have to go learn Aramaic and study Talmud to get a good reply to this, but whadya know, good ol’ :bible1: Biblical studies and :angel1: Catholic theology have a ready answer.😃

Oh and about that Nazirine Priesthood: the Sabbatarians, as they call themselves, have a belief system that seem to be a mish-mosh (hey, if i use the word mitzvah more than once i’m allowed all the Yiddish i want:p ) of Jewish and New Age ideas, + they’re as anti-Catholic as Jack Chick (see the “Pagan Influenced Religions” section of their website). My point: i would seek a second opinion if they told me the sky is blue.:ehh:
 
Hmm:hmmm: This does sound like a Da Vinci Code question. I was just reading in a refutation of the book, that this was one of Brown’s assertions (probably based on some of these Jewish sources that sought to deny Jesus his Messiahship)
 
I don’t know the answer to this, but ALL MEN were required to be married? Even though unable to…consummate, like the impotent or the sterile?
 
40.png
Truth:
Hmm:hmmm: This does sound like a Da Vinci Code question. I was just reading in a refutation of the book, that this was one of Brown’s assertions (probably based on some of these Jewish sources that sought to deny Jesus his Messiahship)
Click to expand...
To whomever sent the “nastygramm”:rolleyes: , I DID read the OP, which is why the response was phrased the way it was…ie.“Hmm” and “does”. Got it?😛 This is a little disappointing, folks!😦
 
40.png
Apologia100:
Well, since Jesus is God, and God is the issuer of commandments, do you really think that Jesus would violate His own commandment? And since He is the issuer of commandments, He stands above them, i.e., they are non-binding upon Him, as He is the source of their authority. This looks almost like a DeVinci Code troll.
Click to expand...
This is a dangerous argument to offer. It would effectively excuse Christ from any sin, which is unnecessary (since He never sinned). Bengalfan comments are right on…
 
40.png
tractarian:
The point about the age when Biblical guys have married is an excellent one, and the bit about Christ truly being married–to the Church–just made me slap my forehead and smile.🙂 Until now, i was afraid that i’d have to go learn Aramaic and study Talmud to get a good reply to this, but whadya know, good ol’ :bible1: Biblical studies and :angel1: Catholic theology have a ready answer.😃

:ehh:
Click to expand...
Hey Tractarian, that was a good idea you had to start this thread with that question. I too learned a good response to that question. Thanks
 
40.png
Annunciata:
I have some thoughts on this…

Was Jesus an Essene(sp)? Was He a Nazarite? If so, then celibacy was required. Sampson was a Nazarite, John the Baptist was a Nazarite? What about the prophet Elijah ?..🙂
Click to expand...
I believe Jeremiah was also told to remain single.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top