Jesus Christ and Homosexuality

[kozlosap]

So you don’t think God can restore your sexual orientation to what He created it to be?/QUOTE

In your wildest dreams, can you imagine being fifteen or seventeen and having someone tell you that they are going to pray away your sexual orientation and that you are somehow defective? (Maybe the high suicide rate among gay teens is an indication of this).

I truly believe that God created you with the sexual orientation that you are born with- gay, straight, asexual and even in some sad cases, transgender. We all know that for thousands of years gay people married straight people in order to be part of mainstream society and not be condemned or harassed. Denying your sexual orientation must be a huge and lifelong decision. I really respect gay and transgender individuals who, because of their religious beliefs,choose to be celebate and not embrace their natural inclinations. I’m very lucky that I have my dear nephew who is gay and a well respected physician to discuss these issues with so that I get first hand educated side of this debate. When he exited that old closet at age 23, he was shocked at the responses from our family- my sister and BIL asked Him why it took him so long! This awesome young man had played football, little league, soccer and dated in high school and college, but from the time he was 2 or 3 the adults all felt he was gay. Not one person ever said anything to him or his brothers and sisters about our suspicions. The gIrls told me after the big announcement that they had always"known" he was gay. I have learned so much from my nephew and his life partner of 15 years.

 

[rcwitness]

I was never created to be straight. I experienced severe depression and suicidal ideation because of thought currents like this in hetero-normative societies (ours included, and most certainly the Catholic Church) that assume heterosexual orientation on all people.

You were created through Adam and Eve after their sin against God. They were created to be straight.

Imagine for a minute that we lived in a predominately homosexual society and you were straight…How insulting is it for you to hear someone ask you to just try harder, just pray harder Johnny and you too can restore yourself to what God created you to be.

I already do pray for God to restore me to His new creation. This means restoring my sexual nature and if He wills that I merely continue to suffer and strive against acting on it, with His grace, then so be it. But don’t tell someone they cannot pray and hope for a miracle especially is they are willing to remain obedient to Him if He choses for them to remain with homosexual desires.

This forum sometimes! Geeze! :banghead:

This kinda melo drama would drive me to depression too

Why would you? The Church does not take a stance on the basis of an individual’s sexual orientation, or whether it can be changed.

To alieviate the affliction

 

[cjforJesus]

Why would you? The Church does not take a stance on the basis of an individual’s sexual orientation, or whether it can be changed.

The Church does not take a stance on what causes homosexuality or any other sexual deviation. It is very clear though that the inclination to the behavior and desire is not sinful unless one acts on it. Though many people generally accept deviant behavior if it s hidden in the guise of so called “love” it is still sinful.It’s probably safe to say that many pedophiles also believe they “love” the children they objectify and use. The human psyche is very complex and often disturbing ,but we have to remember that God’s love and mercy extends to all even those who are sexually deviant.

 

[SquallLeonheart]

The Church does not take a stance on what causes homosexuality or any other sexual deviation. It is very clear though that the inclination to the behavior and desire is not sinful unless one acts on it. Though many people generally accept deviant behavior if it s hidden in the guise of so called “love” it is still sinful.It’s probably safe to say that many pedophiles also believe they “love” the children they objectify and use. The human psyche is very complex and often disturbing ,but we have to remember that God’s love and mercy extends to all even those who are sexually deviant.

Homosexuality is not a sexual deviation and has nothing to do with pedophilia. This is the ultimate straw man argument and holds no validity.

 

[cjforJesus]

Homosexuality is not a sexual deviation and has nothing to do with pedophilia. This is the ultimate straw man argument and holds no validity.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of GRAVE DEPRAVITY,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross

Homosexual attraction is just one form of sexual deviance as there are many others which are disordered and against the natural law. Pope Francis has already commented on the gay lobby within the church. I believe their aim is to normalize not only the attraction but the acts of mutual masturbation and sodomy that often manifest when two people of the same sex are given over to the sexual lust of each other. These are not “genital expressions of love” as one famous homosexual archbishop claimed in an interview,but abominations and a twisting of the natural law,

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Yes, I understand that in order to believe as I do then you must also subscribe to the theory or fact that humans are born with a specific sexual orientation. Does anyone really think that a person would choose to be gay, especially in societies where gay people can be executed just for being gay?

False dichotomy. One isn’t born with cataracts, but one doesn’t choose cataracts, either.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I was never created to be straight. I experienced severe depression and suicidal ideation because of thought currents like this in hetero-normative societies (ours included, and most certainly the Catholic Church) that assume heterosexual orientation on all people.

Imagine for a minute that we lived in a predominately homosexual society and you were straight…How insulting is it for you to hear someone ask you to just try harder, just pray harder Johnny and you too can restore yourself to what God created you to be.

This forum sometimes! Geeze! :banghead:

Scapularkid,

I certainly agree that it’s silly for people to say that praying will make you straight. But that doesn’t mean that homosexual attraction isn’t, in some sense, a defect. Did God create you with the desire to do something that He then condemned? That doesn’t make much sense.

Maybe God created you with certain strengths and weaknesses – the weakness manifests itself as the sin-influenced aspect of the strength. That’s what I believe about my own attraction to men. God lets me have it for a good reason, but it’s not a necessary part of being me. It’s a weakness I’m naturally prone to, but it’s also a weakness I won’t have when I am fully purified.

Does that mean praying will make me straight? It hasn’t yet, and I’m not holding my breath! But praying will make me humble to ANY way that God might work in my life, for my good. I will not place arbitrary restrictions on what God’s grace can do.

Peace,
Prodigal

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Does anyone really think that a person would choose to be gay, especially in societies where gay people can be executed just for being gay?

Sure, why not?

People choose lifestyles that are not generally accepted by society all the time.

Goth Subculture…Hell’s Angels…etc

Granted… in places where homosexuality carries a death sentence…it may be prudent to “stay-in-the-closet” …but these cultures are killing Christians also.

 

[on_the_hill]

This might be the first thread that I think should be locked.

It’s become a feeding frenzy for trolls.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Homosexuality is not a sexual deviation and has nothing to do with pedophilia. This is the ultimate straw man argument and holds no validity.

Well, maybe “deviation” is a little strong…but homosexuality certainty “deviates” from the normal.

I would argue that pedophilia has a lot to do with homosexuality. While all homosexuals are not pedophiles…every Catholic priest involved in the child molestation scandal was admittedly or, in some cases, openly gay.

 

[Havard]

Well, maybe “deviation” is a little strong…but homosexuality certainty “deviates” from the normal.

Deviance/deviation, disorder, etc., can be statistical or scientific terms, but people get upset over their use because they carry connotations of contempt.

I don’t think we should stop using such words altogether, but that we should just be clear how we are using them.

 

[marymary1975]

I think we could expand point and simply say that recitation of the rosary can help with issues of chastity. Our Holy Mother wants us to be chaste in our thoughts, deeds, and actions. Seeking her help, will help us with all issues of chastity, I b**elieve.

I agree. When I wasn’t married I have to say that praying a daily rosary and reciting the magnificat in the morning helped me enormously to be celibate and chaste and be strong against any temptation. The day that I did not pray the rosary I immediately started to struggle with impure thoughts! To anyone that struggles with any temptation of a sexual kind I would heavily recommend daily meditated rosaries and because it worked for me, the magnificat

 

[marymary1975]

Hmm, can one “pray the straight away?”

It’s absolutely insulting and offensive to think that one can “pray the gay” away. It’s also wrong to call homosexuality a “curse.” One thing we as Catholics/Christians MUST accept and realize is that a very large and growing part of the world and country believe there is nothing wrong with being Gay. We must continue to love, respect and accept all human beings rather than finding other ways to alienate and discriminat between us.

You may not be able to just pray it away but I assure you that if every single day you do the entire liturgy of the hours, recite the magnificat every morning and every single day pray a gull meditated rosary and at 3 pm you do the entire rosary of mercy the temptations will be reduced at a minimum and you will easily consciously reject any impure thought.

The problem is that kneeling five minutes and say oh God take this away and then for the rest of the day watch TV, do whatever you want, remain on the same ways as before, and do everything you like first and leave God for 5 or 10 minutes at night won’t do anything for you. If you would stop watching TV, reading the newspaper, doing what makes you comfortable and instead dedicated your entire day to do the liturgy of the hours, dedicate one hour at least of deep praying in the morning, and dedicate another couple of hours to a medicated rosary…only with that I can assure that you will notice a big big difference on yourself.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Deviance/deviation, disorder, etc., can be statistical or scientific terms, but people get upset over their use because they carry connotations of contempt.

I don’t think we should stop using such words altogether, but that we should just be clear how we are using them.

But words mean things.

I believe people misunderstand words because they do not know the proper definition (scientific, statistical or otherwise) Some people get upset over words that apply to them, not because the words are inaccurate, but because the definition sets them apart or labels them as different. While this may be unpleasant it can be true.

However I do agree that contemptuous words have no place in an intelligent discussion or in a rational society.

 

[estesbob]

You may not be able to just pray it away but I assure you that if every single day you do the entire liturgy of the hours, recite the magnificat every morning and every single day pray a gull meditated rosary and at 3 pm you do the entire rosary of mercy the temptations will be reduced at a minimum and you will easily consciously reject any impure thought.

The problem is that kneeling five minutes and say oh God take this away and then for the rest of the day watch TV, do whatever you want, remain on the same ways as before, and do everything you like first and leave God for 5 or 10 minutes at night won’t do anything for you. If you would stop watching TV, reading the newspaper, doing what makes you comfortable and instead dedicated your entire day to do the liturgy of the hours, dedicate one hour at least of deep praying in the morning, and dedicate another couple of hours to a medicated rosary…only with that I can assure that you will notice a big big difference on yourself.

I believe we pray the Magnificat during evening prayer