Jesus Christ Superstar - Traditional Latin View

[Ultima_Ratio]

Sorry, but I don’t buy your "traditional Catholics are better Catholics" argument.

Where in my post did I mention anything about Traditional Catholics being better Catholics?

Tim:

A person’s personal taste is just that, personal taste. I don’t care for the Jesus Christ Superstar movie because I think it is hopelessly dated, but the original album contains some very fine and dramatic music. If you are looking for a synopsis of Catholic theology, then don’t look in JCS, anymore than you would look at the movie Ben Hur or the Ten Commandments. It’s about entertainment.

Sorry, but anyone who has a sensus Catholicus will be disgusted by blasphemy and a distorted Jesus Christ.

Tim:

Also, you assume that, as a “traditional” catholic, you hold the notion of “the true Christ.”

As a matter of fact, you are correct (but I actually revised my original post to say “true Christ”, not “truth of Christ”. You may have read my post before I revised it). But either way, I do profess to believe in both *the true Christ *(as opposed to “another Christ” as St. Paul speaks of), and also the truth of Christ, meaning I adhere to the complete deposit of faith transmitted by Christ and the apostles to the world. In other words, I profess to believe in all the truths that Jesus Christ revealed.
Tim=:

I can assure you that you can ask the same question about Christ to ten good Catholics, be they laity or religious, and will very well get ten different answers.

Given the state of the Church, I’d say you are probably correct. That is the difference what you find in an average parish and a Traditional Parish. In a Traditional parish everyone has the true faith; in an average parish, based on the statistics, almost everyone doesn’t.

Tim:

Even the four gospels present different points of view of Christ.

Are you claiming that the four Gospels each teach a different Christ, or simply four different accounts of the same Christ? And are you questioning that every single word in the Bible is infallibly true?

Tim:

Whenever a person attempts an interpretation of Christ they reveal more about themselves than Him.

Actually, I think what you just said reveals much about *yourself *. Are you saying you don’t know the truth of Christ, or the true Christ. Given the context of your posts, I don’t know how else to interpret it.

And if you don’t know the truth of Christ, I would suggest finding a Traditional Priest in your area and asking him to give you catechism classes. That way you will learn about the truth of Christ.

 

[Ultima_Ratio]

I’m sorry I was neutral on it when it came out, some catchy tunes but even then the theology was bad enough to raise eyebrows even in my ignorance. **Now everything about it gags me, **but it is so dated and so 70s–even the disco costumes–she may hate it just for that reason, but somebody who prefers the Latin Mass will hate this musical

Puzzleannie has the sensus Catholicus.

 

[crazzeto]

Sorry, Tim. I think U. R. has it right.

I’m pretty sure that any good Catholic, will accept Magisterial decissions and documents for what they are, infallible. We have the traditional mass, and we have the venacular mass. They both serve a purpose.

 

[Chatter163]

Cheers to everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I have touched this point lightly with her, thinking at first that she would be thrilled, but she simply avoided it and asked me what other movie I had. I touched on the point another time and it was lately that my father told me that it may be a bit upsetting to someone like her to which of course I could not see why. But all in all, I wanted to get the view point of others who may be like her and have already seen it in order to see if it may be offensive to her.

Of course I now I perceive unfortunately that it may very well be, so I wont ever bring up the subject of watching it again.

Just one more question… would this apply to the music as well? For example if I play the CD in the car… would it also be somewhat inappropriate?

Thanks again…

Ok, if you have already brought up the show twice and neither time was particularly successful, then apparently it was not for her. Why would you then push the envelope by playing the CD in the car? It does not sound very considerate.

 

[crazzeto]

Puzzleannie has the sensus Catholicus.

I’m just curious, since there’s a bizzar suggestion that Jesus Christ Superstar is some how showing something contrary to the Catholic Faith (traditional). In what way is this true? I can understand it might not be for everyone, that’s fine. But there is nothing contrary to faith or morals in it (despite it’s lack of Impramatur). In fact I’ve heard Pope Paul VI was a fan of it.

 

[NeelyAnn]

Cheers to everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I have touched this point lightly with her, thinking at first that she would be thrilled, but she simply avoided it and asked me what other movie I had. I touched on the point another time and it was lately that my father told me that it may be a bit upsetting to someone like her to which of course I could not see why. But all in all, I wanted to get the view point of others who may be like her and have already seen it in order to see if it may be offensive to her.

Of course I now I perceive unfortunately that it may very well be, so I wont ever bring up the subject of watching it again.

Just one more question… would this apply to the music as well? For example if I play the CD in the car… would it also be somewhat inappropriate?

Thanks again…

Bombacho,

If this girl is very conservative (and if she and her family attend the Latin Mass in France, she likely is), then in addition to being conservative in her faith, she is also likely to be conservative when it comes to movies and music. Some traditional Catholics (and even some who are not so traditional) are very selective in what they watch, read, and listen to. I will not say all, because not all are that selective. However, there are many who are. I know many who do not watch modern movies, do not watch TV, do not read modern books, and do not listen to modern music. In my family, we do not watch television. We do watch movies, but only older movies without profanity and without other things, too. We do not read most modern books. We mostly read older books and classics. We do not listen to modern music. When we happen to be somewhere where the TV is on, or a modern movie is on, etc. - those things can be very scandalous and offensive because we are not used to them. For someone who is used to it, it will hardly be noticeable. Even more offensive is when we come across something that seems to mock our Faith, or misrepresents the Faith.

Anyway, if it is musicals you like, perhaps you can find an older musical that is more acceptable. Phantom of the Opera is not older, but it is not bad. Maybe try it.

You could also ask her to tell you about her favorite movies and music. That will give you a good clue about what she likes to see and hear.

 

[JustaServant]

I can remember when the record (LP 33 1/3) came out the year after I graduated from a Catholic boy’s high school. I actually got to see the off-Broadway touring cast perform in Chicago when I was in the Navy in 1971.

I would rather have seen the Chicago Symphony and chorus sing a Haydn Mass. The very thought that this musical as “traditional” sends shivers up my spine.

A year or so ago TCM ran the counterpart to JCSS: Godspell.
My eight grade class performed it in our Catholic school. My wife and I sat and watched it, and I surprised myself by still knowing many of the words to the songs.
But overall, it was dated and disrespectful to our Lord. Something I did not see when I was young. Like JCSS, it needs to stay in that box of historical curiosities that will leave our great great grandchildren scratching thier heads wondering what was wrong with us.
One very spooky element of that film. The dance number on top of the then not completed World Trade Center.

 

[AngloCatholic1]

Just one more question… would this apply to the music as well? For example if I play the CD in the car… would it also be somewhat inappropriate?

**Bombacho,

Are you still SERIOUS?! Do you REALLY expect her to sing along with “I don’t know how to love Him?” when she is an active, serious member of the very Church that taught the entire world HOW TO LOVE HIM? Think, man, think!**

My sincere advice to you is this: If you really like this lady (and it seems you do) then you really ought to try your very best to understand what she sees in HER practice of Christian worship. Read books on the meaning of the traditional Catholic Mass. Get your head inside HERS. It’s my sincere hope that you will, like a fine wine, learn to fully appreciate the sheer beauty of what you have beside you. But be honest with yourself; if you can’t appreciate this beauty… DON’T try and change it. (You wouldn’t cut down a primeval redwood forest just to make diaper pulp would you?!) Just back away slowly so nobody gets hurt, and then let a REAL man fall in love with her!

 

[puzzleannie]

Puzzleannie has the sensus Catholicus.

actually I probably have the sensus fat old white lady

OP asked the question of traditional Catholics who prefer the Latin Mass, so I don’t understand why other posters resent it when that sub-group expresses their honest opinions. Just because my opinion differs from yours, simply stating my opinion does not automatically label you in any way nor should it be taken as an expression of superiority (I should probably make this disclaimer my signature)

 

[Ultima_Ratio]

OP asked the question of traditional Catholics who prefer the Latin Mass, so I don’t understand why other posters resent it when that sub-group expresses their honest opinions.

I don’t either.

Puzzleannie:

Just because my opinion differs from yours, simply stating my opinion does not automatically label you in any way nor should it be taken as an expression of superiority (I should probably make this disclaimer my signature)

But your opinion doesn’t differ from mine. I was agreeing with you. Earlier I said someone with a sensus catholicus would have a natural disgust for this movie. When you said the movie gags you, I replied that you must have the sensus catholicus.

 

[ibkc]

actually I probably have the sensus fat old white lady

OP asked the question of traditional Catholics who prefer the Latin Mass, so I don’t understand why other posters resent it when that sub-group expresses their honest opinions. Just because my opinion differs from yours, simply stating my opinion does not automatically label you in any way nor should it be taken as an expression of superiority (I should probably make this disclaimer my signature)

Ultima Radio was agreeing with you.

 

[bombacho]

**Bombacho,

Are you still SERIOUS?! Do you REALLY expect her to sing along with “I don’t know how to love Him?” when she is an active, serious member of the very Church that taught the entire world HOW TO LOVE HIM? Think, man, think!**

My sincere advice to you is this: If you really like this lady (and it seems you do) then you really ought to try your very best to understand what she sees in HER practice of Christian worship. Read books on the meaning of the traditional Catholic Mass. Get your head inside HERS. It’s my sincere hope that you will, like a fine wine, learn to fully appreciate the sheer beauty of what you have beside you. But be honest with yourself; if you can’t appreciate this beauty… DON’T try and change it. (You wouldn’t cut down a primeval redwood forest just to make diaper pulp would you?!) Just back away slowly so nobody gets hurt, and then let a REAL man fall in love with her!

… wow this was a bit harsh wasnt it? Understanding? Thats the whole point of my thread. I now clearly know not to pressure anything of this sort towards her. To change her? Again, I am the one willing to change for her. I havent been to mass for over 13 years and now not only am I going, but im going to the traditional latin mass… for her. And apreciate her… I dont think anyone has done more for her willingly than I have. I currently just arrived to Syria for vacation (arrived yesterday) and I will probably spend most of my time going to old chapels and monastaries in order to learn about them and have lots of stories of interest as well as pictures to show her. I am probably going to go to Aleppo next week to attend an ancient Aramaic Mass… I myself had been a firm disbeliever and had been a rastafari for a long period of time and no intentions on ever changing. But of course if there is one thing I respect it is the feeling of Love and because of it, I respect and idealize the fact that she herself has her own ideals and morals which I am willing to take as my own for her own sake. Mabye this is too much in your opinion and not something a “Real Man” would do.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

I love Jesus Christ Superstar! I was in school when it came out and the nuns played the record for us and we sang along. What can I say, it was the 70s.

JCS may not have been perfect doctrine, but we kids actually paid attention to it, which we didn’t always do with our religion textbooks.